Chris Jericho: WWE Not Building New Talent?

[The Beltster]

Originally Posted by Jung I honestly think it's a tad rose tinted spectacles there Belty with WCW midcard in that period. They had some great stuff in the likes of Benoit, Malenko, Eddie, the cruisers. I mean leafing through their PPV's throughout 95/96/97 there honestly isn't that many great midcard matches, cruiserweights exempt. Benoit/Sullivan has a few crazy brawls, Harlem Heat/Nasty Boys had a decent tag match at some point, but beyond that there wasn't that much. Seriously check out the PPV's, cruiserweigh matches and anything involving the guys I mentioned and that was about it. And the tag division was hardly fantastic. Harlem Heat, Meng & The Barbarian, Bunkhouse Buck and Dick Slater, Bagwell and Riggs, Nasty Boys, Public Enemy, Fire & Ice, Outsiders. Thats not a great tag division. And then US title matches, Sting/Meng, Konnan/One Man Gang etc all stank. There were some notable exceptions and Starrcade 95 is still a tremendous PPV, but I don't think their midcard, with exception to the cruisers and Benoit, Eddie et al (and then Raven, Kanyon, Saturn, DDP, Booker T come 1998) was anywhere near amazing. Plus WWF midcard 95/96 wasn't as bad as you make out. Hakushi, 123 Kid, Owen, Davey, Austin, Goldust, Mero, Mankind, HBK, Razor, Jarrett. Plenty of excellent mid-card matches throughout that period. Certainly if you take the cruisers away from WCW, I'd say probably just as many top midcard matches.

I was never a huge fan of WCW to be fair, so I dont think its rose tinted glasses, I just remember them having great undercard and midcard matches whereas the WWF really shone mainly with their main events.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying everything WCW put out in the midcard was great and everything the WWF put out was lame, I'm saying the WCW undercard matches were generally much better than the WWF's and the WWF's main events were usually better than WCW's.

We obviously have different opinions on the period and thats fine, but I did prefer the style of matches WCW put out in their midcard at that time whereas the WWF's in general didnt hold my interest at all and there was a huge amount of garbage that clogged up their undercards. Also, when it came to TV, Nitro was usually much better than RAW on the undercard, IMO.

Poor old Hakushi never got a chance to do anything due to Vince hating small people and the Japanese in general I remember him getting stuck with stiffs like Skip, Barry Horowitz and Sparky Plugg.

[Jung]

Originally Posted by The Beltster I was never a huge fan of WCW to be fair, so I dont think its rose tinted glasses, I just remember them having great undercard and midcard matches whereas the WWF really shone mainly with their main events. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying everything WCW put out in the midcard was great and everything the WWF put out was lame, I'm saying the WCW undercard matches were generally much better than the WWF's and the WWF's main events were usually better than WCW's. We obviously have different opinions on the period and thats fine, but I did prefer the style of matches WCW put out in their midcard at that time whereas the WWF's in general didnt hold my interest at all and there was a huge amount of garbage that clogged up their undercards. Also, when it came to TV, Nitro was usually much better than RAW on the undercard, IMO. Poor old Hakushi never got a chance to do anything due to Vince hating small people and the Japanese in general I remember him getting stuck with stiffs like Skip, Barry Horowitz and Sparky Plugg.

Its sad really that a lot of good stuff from that era gets forgotten.

Like 123 Kid/Hakushi at Summer Slam 95, Bret/Hakushi IYH 1, Underdogs/123 Kid's team at Survivor Series 95, Austin/Mero KOTR96, Jarrett/Razor throughout 1995.

But yes we'll agree to disagree cause I honestly think if you take the cruiser matches out of the WCW midcard, I'd say their undercard matches were no better than what WWE put out.

[Dave7g]

Wow, Shamrock/Vader. Christ I loved that match at the time. I must dust off some of my VHS collection.

[The Beltster]

SummerSlam 95 and Survivor Series 95 were both really good PPV's. Alot of classic WWF matches that happened on IYH PPV's are largely forgotten just because they were on IYH shows and not WM or SSlam etc.

Taker vs Mankind with the guard rail spots and Mankind vs Michaels are two unbelievable matches.

[Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Jung But yes we'll agree to disagree cause I honestly think if you take the cruiser matches out of the WCW midcard, I'd say their undercard matches were no better than what WWE put out.

I wouldn't, purely because the WCW midcard for much of 97 was really awesome and the crowd was hot for everything. The tag division was pretty damn good in WCW - Steiners, Harlem Heat, Public Enemy (they came in, put people through tables and left. Perfect), Wrath and Mortis, all good teams who had some great matches. The midcard, although there were a few stinkers, included some great talents such as Guerrero, Jericho, Malenko, Benoit, Wright, Dragon, Jarrett, Bagwell (was pretty good until his neck injury), Konnan and Regal. The cruiserweights had Mysterio, Guerrera, Psychosis, Calo, Syxx and other fine talents. The upper-midcard was usually always really strong with DDP, Savage, Henning, etc (DDP and Savage had a great feud together). Fall Brawl 97 is an awesome PPV to prove this: all of two matches on the show weren't very good. The rest were all either good or pretty awesome.

Plus, the shows had a big direction, a big time feel, and an entertaininng commentary team who helped things along.

A lot of good stuff in WWF does get looked over, granted, but WCW was wiping the floor with WWF in every conceivable way except for quality main event matches, but that flaw didn't matter when they buyrates came in.

[Jung]

Originally Posted by TMJ I wouldn't, purely because the WCW midcard for much of 97 was really awesome and the crowd was hot for everything. The tag division was pretty damn good in WCW - Steiners, Harlem Heat, Public Enemy (they came in, put people through tables and left. Perfect), Wrath and Mortis, all good teams who had some great matches. The midcard, although there were a few stinkers, included some great talents such as Guerrero, Jericho, Malenko, Benoit, Wright, Dragon, Jarrett, Bagwell (was pretty good until his neck injury), Konnan and Regal. The cruiserweights had Mysterio, Guerrera, Psychosis, Calo, Syxx and other fine talents. The upper-midcard was usually always really strong with DDP, Savage, Henning, etc (DDP and Savage had a great feud together). Fall Brawl 97 is an awesome PPV to prove this: all of two matches on the show weren't very good. The rest were all either good or pretty awesome. Plus, the shows had a big direction, a big time feel, and an entertaininng commentary team who helped things along. A lot of good stuff in WWF does get looked over, granted, but WCW was wiping the floor with WWF in every conceivable way except for quality main event matches, but that flaw didn't matter when they buyrates came in.

Oh 97, I think their midcard was excellent. I was more talking 95-96, where if you look at the midcard it really wasn't great (cruiserweights being the exemption). So yeah that was the period I think WWE/WCW midcards were fairly similar, with WCW being better because of the cruisers. 1997 I think was the year they both started putting together great shows from top to bottom.

[DC]

The In Your House events had a lot of good-to-great matches on the 28 cards to use that name...

• Bret Hart v Hakushi (IYH1)
• Razor Ramon v Jeff Jarrett & The Roadie (IYH1)
• The Roadie v 1-2-3 Kid (IYH2)
• Michaels v Jarrett (IYH2)
• Bulldog v Vader (IYH3)
• Bret Hart v Jean-Pierre Lafitte (IYH3)
• Diesel & Shawn Michaels v Yokozuna & Bulldog (IYH3)
• The Smoking Gunns v 1-2-3 Kid & Razor Ramon (IYH4)
• Bulldog v Diesel (IYH4)
• Bret Hart v Bulldog (IYH5)
• Michaels v Owen Hart (IYH6)
• Bret v Diesel in a cage (IYH6)
• Vader v Razor Ramon (IYH7)
• Michaels v Diesel in a No Holds Barred Match (IYH7) - this was an stunning brawl
• Bulldog v Michaels (IYH8)
• Vader, Owen Hart & Bulldog v Michaels, Sid & Ahmed Johnson (IYH9)
• Michaels v Mankind (IYH10)
• Undertaker v Mankind in a Buried Alive Match (IYH11)
• Flash Funk v Leif Cassidy (IYH12)
• Owen Hart & Bulldog v "Razor Ramon" & "Diesel" (IYH12)
• Sid v Bret Hart (IYH12)
• Doug Furnas & Phil LaFon v Owen Hart & Bulldog (IYH13)
• Bret Hart v Vader v Stone Cold v Undertaker (IYH13) - this is brutal and Vader's greatest hour in WWE
• Undertaker v Mankind (IYH14)
• Bret Hart v Stone Cold (IYH14)
• Shamrock v Vader (IYH15) - they really kicked the crap out of each other
• Undertaker v Stone Cold (IYH15)
• Mankind v Triple H (IYH16)
• The Great Sasuke v Taka Michinoku (IYH16)
• Undertaker v Vader (IYH16)
• The Hart Foundation (Bret, Owen, Anvil, Pillman & Bulldog) v Stone Cold, Shamrock, Undertaker and Legion of Doom (IYH16) - meaning EVERY MATCH on this card "makes the list", it's that good
• Bret Hart v The Patriot (IYH17)
• Michaels v Undertaker (IYH17) - to me, this is THE lost match of the Attitude Era and it's a crying shame
• Bret Hart & Bulldog v Vader & The Patriot in a Flag Match (IYH18)
• Michaels v Undertaker; Hell in a Cell (IYH18) - a new gimmick is unveiled and becomes a legend in one night
• Shamrock v Michaels (IYH19)
• Kane v Vader (IYH20)
• Stone Cold, Owen Hart, Cactus Jack & Chainsaw Charlie v Triple H, Billy Gunn, Road Dogg & Savio Vega (IYH20) - another match that is forgotten, but is a stunningly heated affair with THE best trash-can throw ever and my personal favourite snap Stunner
• Undertaker v Kane in an Inferno Match (IYH21)
• Stone Cold v Dude Love (IYH21)
• Stone Cold v Dude Love in a No-DQ, Falls Count Anywhere Match (IYH22) - quite possibly the greatest WWE Championship match you've never seen, quite possibly the greatest WWE Championship match of the Attitude Era
• D'Lo Brown v X-Pac (IYH23)
• The Rock v Triple H, 2-out-of-3 Falls (IYH23)
• Undertaker & Stone Cold v Kane & Mankind (IYH23)
• Owen Hart v Edge (IYH24)
• The Rock v Mankind v Shamrock in a Steel Cage Match (IYH24)
• Undertaker v Kane v Austin (IYH24)
• X-Pac v D'Lo Brown (IYH25)
• Shamrock v Mankind (IYH25)
• Undertaker v Kane with Austin as the referee (IYH25)
• Mankind v The Rock (IYH26)
• Stone Cold v Undertaker in a Buried Alive Match (IYH26)
• Bob Holly v Al Snow (IYH27) - this match is for the WWF Hardcore Championship and has the two men fighting in the Mississippi River
• Mankind v The Rock in a Last Man Standing Match (IYH27)
• Stone Cold v Mr. McMahon in a Steel Cage Match (IYH27)
• New Age Outlaws v Jeff Jarrett & Owen Hart (IYH28)
• Mankind v Paul Wight in a Boiler Room Brawl (IYH28) - Big Show still hadn't been given his WWE name at this point, so worked under his real moniker
• Stone Cold v The Rock in a No-DQ Match (IYH28)

If WWE ever did a "Best of In Your House" DVD collection, that would be a match list to proud of. Some just scrape into the "good" category, but it's a fantastic list of bouts, especially since most of them are forgotten. The feud between X-Pac and D'Lo Brown over the European Title was great and some of the main-events for these events piss all over a lot of today's output.

[The Beltster]

I think its the general opinion of wrestling fans who were fans during the monday night wars that from 1996 until the Attitude era kicked off in 1998, WCW had much superior midcard and tag division matches and the WWF had much superior main event matches even while severely lacking the star power WCW had in its main events.

[MastersGonads]

Rey is about to drop the title to a nobody

So the title of the thread is how WWE arent building talent?!

Isnt Dolph Ziggler new talent, who is fresh and a prmosing worker...

Seems the WWE cant win!

[Jimmy Redman]

I think to fix this, we need RANKINGS.

Although there's a much simpler way to calculate it, its usually pretty accurate.

The No. 1 Contender is Batista.