23/4 WOL report w/Billy Graham

[Rikidozan]

'Wrestling Observer Live radio report with Superstar Graham



Overly Detailed Wrestling Observer Live Review 2-22-04

By Jack Encarnacao

Tonight is Dave’s first night on the air in a few weeks due to PPV preemptions. Bryan is wrestling in Portland tonight against the Villanos in one of the bigger matches of his career, so he’s got other plans for tonight than co-hosting. Billy Graham will join us.

Start off with a talking point about WWE has been pretty hot lately headed into Wrestlemania (don’t they always manage to do this?). Eddy as new champ is a huge part of the show. Dave doesn’t know of any title change since Lesnar beat Rock in Summerslam 02 that has gotten so much talk. Eddy’s size is so not WWE title push material, and the WWE is now clearly marketing to the Hispanic population, which they’ve never done before. Dave said he’s a great worker, but no one ever figured he’d be a WWE champion. US champ, IC champ, sure. But Eddy has never headlined a major show in history until No Way Out. I didn’t realize that. The new style with a slower pace, and more holds seems to be working pretty well. Audience seems to be taking to it faster than Dave expected. I think the real test will come when guys who aren’t fantastic workers start doing the style and whether or not fans react to that.

Dave thought Smackdown this week had a good Angle turn. He said it was standard, but thought the execution was really good with the announcers voices disappearing, leaving just crowd reaction as Angle pounded Eddy. It is effective to silence the announcers. Dave though HBK/Benoit from Monday was tremendous. All the lines are lit up with weeks of backed up questions. A lot of phone call taking today.

Most of the top matches have been finalized for Wrestlemania, and Dave thinks it’s a very deep lineup. We have 9 matches that are pretty much finalized, 2 others that are probable. 1) Goldberg v. Lesnar, which at this point will be Goldberg’s final match with the company, 2) Eddy v. Angle, which Dave says should be a classic, 3) Triple threat, probably ladder, match with HHH v. HBK v. Benoit. Dave expects the ladder stip to be added in the next week or two. Perhaps part of Vince’s WM announcement Monday? He better say more than that. Dave says if you throw in ladder, coupled with the fact that it’s Wrestlemania, you’ll have another great match on paper. 4) Rock/Foley v. Orton/Batista, 5) UT v. Kane, 6) Stacy/Jackie v. Torrie/Sable, which Dave says would be a horrible wrestling match, 7) Jericho v, Christian, 8) Big Show v. Cena, 9) 3 way for Smackdown tag titles with Rikishi/Scotty v. APA v. Benjamin/Hass, 10) Probable cruiserweight title battle royal. The status of this one should be evident after Tuesday night’s Smackdown tapings from Kansas City, where they’ll do a Misterio v. Chavo rematch. 10) Holly v. Victoria, as Victoria has like 400 non-title wins over Molly, 11) Booker/RVD will find a team to defend against as well. Dave says it looks good on paper, but as far as a buyrate goes, this will be no record setter. We’ll see what the name “Wrestlemania XX” means when the numbers come in for this one. I have a feeling they’re going to do something to bulk this one up in the final week, probably involving Austin, Vince, or maybe moving Rock around. I think this show needs one more thing, though I’m not quite sure what it is.

Jonathan from GA is on the line. He wants to know what happened to Matt Hardy since jumping to RAW? Well, he ceased to exist. Dave clarifies a little. They’re doing losing streak gimmick with him, which never works. Six months after the Hardy book was written, Dave suspects someone actually read it and the honesty in those pages buried his and Lita’s pushes. Wow, where has Lita been?

Jonathan is iffy on the finish to the HBK/Benoit match from RAW. Jonathan says Benoit is no Mr. Charisma, so he gets over based on his ring work, and getting laid by HBK seems to indicate that they’re not as big into his push. Dave says that if Benoit wins the title at Wrestlemania and then beats HBK in Edmonton at Backlash in his first title defense, than the finish they did on Raw makes sense. If anything else happens, it doesn’t really make sense. First thing Dave thought of at the finish is that they’re setting up a contender when HBK won. He’d rather see HBK/Benoit than Benoit/HHH. I’d rather see Benoit/Broomstick than most HHH matches or movies. Dave points out that Canadians deep down hate HBK, and a match between he and Benoit in Edmonton could allow Monday’s finish to make sense when all is said and done. It may also have just been the politics as usual. Jonathan is afraid that “Mr. H” would have something to say in regards to how the finish was laid out. Dave remembers last year’s Booker/HHH hype. Booker was going to win the title, all ready and set to wear the gold, and it just didn’t happen. HHH has a way of making that happen. Dave said Benoit’s push can be pulled out from under him all the way up until the day Wrestlemania. Anyone remember the last few shows before King on the Ring 2001 for Benoit v. Jericho v. Austin? Watch closely for that same vibe if you want insight into how they’re regarding Benoit’s chances at Mania.

Jonathan thinks Eddy came across as Rock-like as far as his crowd response last week. The volume may be the same, but I think Rock’s reaction is a little too unique to ever go to someone else. Dave says the WWE expected the reaction from Fresno (i.e, a lot of Hispanics). Jonathan is leery of Eddy as a transitional champ. Dave says that’s not the plan right now. The plan is for him to be THE champ. I get “too good to be true” vibes when I hear that, and with good reason considering the false-start pushes for talent of Guerrero’s ilk.

Dave says this whole Eddy thing will be tough on Brock. Ever since Brock beat Rock, Brock has always been the champ, or he lost it because he’s going to win it back in a rematch. This time the switch is not a temporary thing. Someday Brock will probably get it back, but this is Eddy’s time. They’re not going to pull the rug out from under Eddy. Dave doesn’t expect him to lose to Angle at WM. Dave says the WWE has to find out where they can go with Eddy. Jonathan again says Eddy has a Rock/Austin-like presence. Dave says Austin is perhaps too big of a deal historically for that comparison, and that crowd reaction and drawing power are two totally different things. Dave thinks WWE folks regard Eddy now as the #1 guy on Smackdown.

Could we see Guerrero/Benoit as the two big champs? Who would’ve ever thought it? Jonathan wants to know who was behind Eddy? Dave says it’s been a lot of people ever since last summer when his quarters started doing well. Heyman is certainly one of them, but it’s not like no one else was behind Eddy’s push (I think if it was just Heyman, it would’ve never gotten this far). Dave says that sooner or later the company was going to have to listen to crowd. They knew they had to make some moves, and also cater to the Hispanic audience, and everything fit with Eddy. The right time, right place, motif in the annals of wrestling history carries on.

One line is open! Well, actually, it’s too late to call now. This week’s Observer has the history of the Guerrero family, the history of the Cow Palace, the history of the Guerreros in the Cow Palace, the history of cows, anything you could possibly want. Also history of WWE piece, looking at late 91, early 92, one of the most interesting periods in WWE. The time of the Hogan/Flair fued and the scandals that put wrestling into the dark ages until 1996 really. What happened, why it happened, and a lot of stuff that hasn’t been printed before in this week’s Observer. Just order it for God’s sake.

Ed in San Antonio is doing pretty good. He points out that Vince Sr. made a lot of money by pushing minority (I think he means ethnic) champs. Ed names Morales, Sammartino (Italians a minority?), and also Rocca and Brazil as examples. Ed wants to know why it took Vince Jr. so long to go for this market with the Eddy push? Dave says, “Because he’s not Hispanic.” So, I guess Vince Sr. was? Dave says that when he started, Morales was a success in New York with the Puerto Rican base, but not everywhere. Bruno, on the other hand, appealed to everyone. Then you look at Graham, Backlund, Hogan, they’re not ethnic characters either. Dave says it’s so against what Vince would do to push someone of Eddy’s size, especially with business down (Vince always goes to big guys when business is down). He does, however, listen to crowd reaction, and crowd reaction was telling him that it was Eddy’s time. Ed hopes Vince listens to the crowd. Dave says he’s seen, time after time, dating back to 89, people watching Eddy on big shows, and everyone knew he was a great wrestler, but no one really hired him until Heyman got in over in 95 in ECW. WCW brought him in and the rest is history. Neither WWF or WCW called him after the When World’s Collide Lucha PPV in 1994, where had a spectacular match teaming with Barr against Santo and Octagon. Dave says drugs, depression, nearly ended his life (Eddy’s life, that is), and he very close to ending his career. He was fired and he made a comeback. Dave says it’s a success story, period, not just a Hispanic success story.

Ed has seen a lot of the Guerrero bothers, but wants to know more about Mando. Dave saw him in LA, and he was the smallest Guerrro height wise. Only about 5-5. Dave said he had “little man’s complex.” Could the same be said of Sky Low Low? Dave says Mando was a talented guy like the rest. Mando got a little bit of a push in San Francisco, but size was at a premium in the 70s, and small guys weren’t really pushed. Mando was never really a superstar, even though he was a pretty good talent. Even in Mexico he was not a superstar. Ed wants to know something about Hector but goes blank. So he asks about the health of Superstar Graham? And, what do you know, Graham is on the horn! WHAT A SEGWAY!

Ed asks Graham how his health is. Graham talks about his two-week hospital stay due to his small intestines twisting on him. The new ailment is not liver-related, but led to a very tedious 10 days without food. He said he could only eat ice chips. Graham says he has na abdominal hernia from 2 years before his liver transplant. The hernia where abs is where one’s abs join together in the six-pack stomach we all taut, and that his muscles there have been stretched and ripped. Now it gets gross.

Last Saturday, Graham said he was in the gym lifting when one of his intestines came through his abdominal wall and shot out of his stomach three inches. That’s so gross I’m not even sure I heard that correctly. Graham said it looked like something out of “Alien.” Dave keels over and vomits in the background. Graham said his doctor came to tend to him and pushed his intestine back into his stomach and said that he cannot lift one ounce until he has an operation. It should be about 3 more months until he can train. The big question, then. Is he able to go to Garden? He said he’s good to go.

Ed spontaneously remembers his Hector question. As far as Gobbeldy Gooker (whom Hector played at the infamous Survivor Series PPV as the surprise in the egg), how much did Hector get paid for that gig? Dave has no idea. That is, I’ve found, one of the hardest things to find out in the business-how much talent is paid. Dave says WWE thought Gobbeldy Gooker was going to be a good idea, but it wasn’t. They had high hopes for it, and Dave laughs before he can complete the thought. He said the whole gimmick laid an egg.

Eddy was being interviewed on wwe.com about his No Way Out match, and mentioned that he got a phone call from Graham. Graham says he watched the show, and that all the Guerreros are talented. He agreed Mando was too short. He said Eddy is such a phenomenal talent. Graham appreciates his demeanor, saying he’s such a humble guy. Graham gave him a call after the Frenso show and told him what a great match he had. They have drug issues in common as far as past abuse experience. They talk about those issues often. Graham said Eddy is a real special guy.

Dave wanted to know if he was ever involved in early Wrestlemanias. He was involved in WM4, where managed Don Morocco. Graham said his body was still falling apart at the time.

In the last two years, Dave’s sensed more of an interest in wrestling history. The Kid Rock “Lonely Road of Faith” video that played on RAW in November 2001 was a real eye-opener for me on this issue. I remember being so refreshed when I saw all these names that had burned bridges being acknowledged as important to WWE lore. Dave observes that in the 80s, even when Graham came back to manage and commentate, his history was not brought up, no one talked about it or appreciated it. I know I had no idea Graham was a legend when I was young watching him manage and announce. Wrestlers in the biz now, though, always talk about Graham as the one heel champ that had a long run in the 70s, and talk about his sellouts and bouts with Bruno. Dave says it’s almost like all of that stuff has become important. Graham said at Summerslam this past year, Spike Dudley brought a highlight reel of Graham’s matches over the years. In the late afternoon in the canteen room, he popped that baby in of Graham’s title reign, and all the guys and the girls started watching it and were really intrigued by it. I’d been they’d actually be discouraged from doing that at all 5 years ago when “Attitude” was the thing. Graham knows that Mick Foley likes to go back and watch the old stuff. Dave says HHH does as well. Graham says that, as far as this interest in history goes, there’s something that’s going on now that’s kind’ve unexplainable.

Dave says in the WWE Unscripted book, HHH calls Graham one of his ten favorite wrestlers, and called Hogan a blatant rip off him. Graham points out that Jesse Ventura, who will be at the WMXX Hall of Fame deal as well, has always been upfront about how his career could’ve never turned out as it did if it wasn’t for Graham. In every article written about him, Jesse says he ripped Graham off and doesn’t forget his past. Jesse called Graham about the Hall of Fame deal, and told Graham that if he wasn’t going, he wasn’t going to go. Sure enough, Vince himself called Graham the next day with the invite. Greg Valentine, Bobby Heenan, Tito Santana, Bob Backlund and Sgt. Slaughter will also be there. Graham said those are good names. Dave remembers In Jesse’s book, when he met his wife in a club he was bouncing for, he bragged to her (she was a wrestling fan at the time) that he was Graham’s brother. Graham says Jesse’s wife was really attracted to the superstars. What a way to start an honest relationship, Dave said. They’ve been married almost 31 years, which is impressive after going through the rigors of wrestling’s schedule. You show me a wrestler who hasn’t been divorced and I’ll show you a wrestler who hasn’t been married.

Back to Eddy hitting rock bottom. Graham said Eddy’s promos about the demons were basically shoot promos.

Caller wants to know when Graham’s book is coming out. About this time next year, he said. He’ll be meeting on 3/15 with his editor and going over a lot of stuff. Caller alos wants to know if Graham has reconciled his differences with Hogan. Graham said he’s tried and he’s tried and he’s tried, but Hogan doesn’t seem to be responsive. At Hawk’s funeral in Tampa, Hogan was there and was reportedly congenial with everyone but never talked to Graham. Graham says it seems like there’ some wedge there that he’s hoping will be resolved.

Graham will be inducted the night before at the WM Hall of Fame banquet ($200 tickets for you fans that want to go), and he will be introduced live with the rest of the inductees at WM20.

Dave wants to know if Graham has talked to Don Frye at all? Valerie, Graham’s wife, has talked to him, and Graham said he’s due to speak to him. Graham knows Frye still hasn’t gotten his MRI, and he’s supposed to get it this week. Graham said Frye wastotally caught off guard with Gary Goodridge’s high kick in their recent fight. Dave said Gary has never thrown a kick in his life.

Dave thinks the biggest frustration in Graham’s career is that he didn’t get a babyface run after 78 when it was ripe. He said it would’ve been huge success but never happened. Graham confirms that as his biggest disappointment. He said Vince Sr. was hellbent on Backlund being the top guy at the time. Vince spent one year building Backlund on TV and getting the title. Vince knew it was going to be a struggle to get Backlund over, but it was his pride on the line, and he did it. Graham said the Backlund push took the heart and soul out of his career.

Graham said that he didn’t click as strongly in other areas of the country, especially his Carolina run. In the Carolinas it was like pulling teeth because he had no time to do promos, plus they had Paul Jones as his manager talking for him. Graham said he was never comfortable there.

Ed in Illinois is with us. He’s on the road, Dave warns us, and Ed sounds a lot like a dial tone. Next caller is Simon from Arkansas, who remembers Graham as a favorite and that grandma got him hooked on wrestling. Simon wants to know if Sting may come in to WWE? Graham said he talks to Sting but rarely about the business. Dave says the schedule is the key issue, as Sting’s got money, family, and doesn’t want to go back on the road. If Vince wanted to bring him in for show here and there, Dave thinks he might be interested. Dave said Sting did well as far as crowd reactions in his TNA shots. Dave said WWE needs to build to the future as opposed to bringing back guys from past. One Sting match maybe three months down the line would be a good idea, he said. Simon thinks brining back older guys livens things up. Kevin Nash comes up, and Dave said he’s very injury prone. Graham was told by Nash that he didn’t think he had another run left in him after his contract was up. Dave said Sting is healthier than Kevin the same age. Graham says the Sting gimmick is real good.

Graham comments on the tie dye and cutting edge physique he sported in his day. Dave said it’s the emphasis on physique that’s positive and negative. Most guys when he came in were large, but physiques weren’t the thing. A few guys, like Earl Maynard and Dory Dixon and Art Thomas had great physiques. But you didn’t have real cut up guys that were big at the same time. Dave says everyone watches their diet now, more than Graham does. Simon remembers Tony Atlas as another early guy with a great physique. Dave said he huge arms and small legs. Graham remembers doing a bench press angle with him Atlas Houston. They brought the bench in and the legit Olympic plates, and he thinks Atlas lifted a legit 505. Graham remembers Atlas’ thin skin with big arms and pecs and delts. Simon says talking to Superstar was one his highlights.

Just as a conversation about the changes in wrestling started, my network connection failed. I missed about 15 minutes, during which Bruce Mitchell and/or Bryan Alvarez may have checked in, but there was no trace of them when I got the stream back.

The Brock Lesnar question again at the forefront. He came into WWE in the spring of 02. and was immediately pushed to the moon, and was an incredible athlete for a 295-pound guy. Dave said Brock is one of the most athletic he’s ever seen. He progressed very quickly, and since winning the title has always been in the championship picture. Now, after being the number one guy and never having to struggle to get to the top of the business, Eddy is the guy. Brock is down right now. Graham went through that when he was on top, and then it was over, and it was a killer. Graham thinks Brock’s case is a different animal. Graham thinks Brock needs a makeover. Graham said Brock needs to graduate from college and become a full grown man (I think he was talking about his looks here). Graham says he needs to do some old school heel stuff, grow his hair out, add some color, get him help with some promos, and develop a strong personality. Graham said he pitched these ideas to Vince and he was very intrigued with them. Brock has told Graham that he could use some help, which is very humble of him. Graham thinks it’s time for the makeover now because he’s done everything he could do. Graham said Eddy is the guy, and he can carry the company right now.

Doug is on the phone. Dave again said no one has plan for how long this Eddy push goes. Graham remembers that after Summerslam when they went to El Paso for Smackdown, as Eddy’s night. Graham thinks Eddy has developed so much charisma, his promos are sincere, and he’s coming into his own. Graham “thinks he’s for real.” Graham said the fans have turned him, and that we haven’t seen those kind of pops for a long time.

Dave talks about Eddy’s Stacker 2 ad. When they first made that commercial, it was in Spanish and English on Confidential. Dave said if they put that ad on Spanish TV, Eddy would absolutely catch fire. Both Dave and Graham seem to agree that it is indeed on Telemundo. Dave can’t imagine anyone putting a time limit on Eddy’s push, they’ll just feed him guys and see how it goes.

Graham is asked what it was like to work with Morocco in 80s? He said it was a lot of fun. Graham said Morocco had a tremendous physique and a very strong, pleasant personality. Dave says Morocco was one of those guys who didn’t like working colder climates, but Dave thought ability-wise that in the 70s Morocco had world champion potential. Graham agrees. Graham said he was red hot in the 1983 cage match with Snuka. Dave said that’s undoubtedly his career highlight. Graham said the only thing Morocco was lacking was real over-the-top charisma.

Call from California brings Japan questions to the table. There is talk that the recent Tenzan IWGP title win may not have been what was planned. Dave said his most trusted person in New Japan said that that was what was supposed to happen, but others have led him to believe otherwise. Dave also heard that Nagata was supposed to win, but they called an audible. Dave points out that on that show, Chono wrestled Tenryu and they did a worked stretcher job there. It doesn’t make sense to come back the next match with the exact same knockout finish. Dave said Tenzan needs to retire that moonsault he does. He’s going to kill himself or someone else because he’ too big to be doing that move right now. For those that don’t know, Tenzan’s knee cracked Nagata in the face duringt he match and Nagata was apparently knocked out. Other are saying that they’ve done that angle before. Dave wouldn’t say for sure, but heard it was a strong tournament for the title overall. Caller wants to know about All Japan’s future. Dave said they’re losing money, but had a successful show today. Dave said shoot fighting is really hurting pro wrestling, and that Mutoh is not a very good administrator, and has really hurt company trying to copy things he’s learned from Eric Bischoff.

Mitch in Berkeley thinks WWE is dropping the ball with Lesnar doing a promo as a baby out there on Smackdown last week. Metlzer hated that promo, thought it was all wrong. Mitch needs to say that he’s grateful for where wrestling is at right now. If you think about it, there is a lot of cool stuff happening.

Mitch wants to know why Rock is in this WM tag match? Is Foley not in shape? Will there be a one-on-one cage match between Foley and Orton at Backlash? Dave said this was a way to get Rock into WM that everyone was comfortable with. Dave said Batista is in there so he’s not lost in the shuffle. Dave says WWE knows a lot of people are going to be watching the match for Rock and Foley and hope Batista’s look catches eyes that way. Dave said the look is all Batista has. Mitch said it’s like Sid and Dave says it’s like Graham (ouch). Dave says in Sid’s and Graham’s case look alone with promo ability was good enough. But with Batista, they really have to do a lot of athletic stuff, and he’s not all that good at it right now. Dave doesn’t see Orton and Foley working again until Summerslam. Dave closes the show saying it wasn’t the right thing for his character.

I’m open to any criticisms or suggestions readers may have. Are the reports too exhaustive? Just right? Does the stenographic approach work? You can reach me at JEncarn929@aol.com.'

[Ravenmark]

Morocco?

Surely he meant Muraco?

[Trash]

hbk v hhh v benoit ladder match??
Do they not think a regualr triple threat would be enough?
T riple threat matches can be extremely exiting, but guess for Mania a ladder would benefit the show. Triple H in a ladder match though...hasn't he only ever been in one with Rock at SummerSlam 98? I dont know if a ladder will improve his performance, being as it wont be very familier with HHH's ring work. HBK will definately have the advantage being a veteran of ladder matches, and Benoit would certainly be able to entertain in the match. His Rumble 01 performance rocked. But unless he adapts his style a bit, which I'm sure he would be able if a ladder was about then Triple H would get over-shadowed by the opponants. He would have to do somethings really special and not stick to his slow type of work he tries to encourage.
"Pedigree off a ladder!!!"
Ok no.