RAW Discussion Thread - March 15, 2010 from San Diego, CA (#877)

[DC]

Originally Posted by GoldStandard I'm kinda worried about what will become of Cody Rhodes when the Legacy program ends. I don't even think creative know what they'll do with him. Probably ship him to Smackdown.

Can anyone else say Silverdust?

[Fiona]

Originally Posted by DC Hey, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong; it's just what I feel will happen eventually and it'll start at WrestleMania (especially as I also think that Cena will turn heel before the end of the year).

I know the fans love to hate Cena but he's a face no doubt about it.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Fiona I know the fans love to hate Cena but he's a face no doubt about it.

I never said he wasn't a face.

[Jung]

Originally Posted by DC Much like Austin turned face "after months of the fans wanting it," I feel the same thing is going to happen with Orton. The fans want to cheer him and have done for months. At WrestleMania, I think he'll turn face, giving the fans what they want, and then he'll go from there. It's nothing to do with the match itself (I don't expect much from it, truth be told), more that I believe that it'll be the point where Orton himself takes the first step to a headlining run as a good guy. He's never had a top-line run as a face, the fans want him to turn face badly and he has that "I'll attack anyone if they cross me" aura like Austin had. If you want to take it to extremes, he even has a similar nickname in "The Viper." Orton is primed to become the top face in WWE (at least on the RAW side of things) and I simply believe WrestleMania XXVI will be the first night on his journey to that point.

But he already has turned face.

That's where my skepticism mainly comes from.

He's already a face. He's been turned on by Legacy, now basically feuds with them, will team with another face next week. Why will he turn at WM? He's already facing a heel team, he's already the face?

With Austin, he was still a heel facing a major face, who were both transitioning at the time.

I just don't understand the whole "he'll turn face, give the fans what they want, they've been dying to cheer him etc"....well why haven't they then?

As I said, he's a face now, he's feuding with heels. I mean how exactly would he turn face at WM? What's he going to do? Beat them up? Done that.

He's been a face ever since Legacy fully turned on him, yet nobody cares about the feud, or even him much more. His responses still aren't great, probably because the feud is awful and just been a failure from the beginning.

I'm honest confused as to how he's going to turn face at WM...when he already has. And sod all's happened.

[Twig]

Originally Posted by Jung But he already has turned face. That's where my skepticism mainly comes from. He's already a face. He's been turned on by Legacy, now basically feuds with them, will team with another face next week. Why will he turn at WM? He's already facing a heel team, he's already the face? With Austin, he was still a heel facing a major face, who were both transitioning at the time. I just don't understand the whole "he'll turn face, give the fans what they want, they've been dying to cheer him etc"....well why haven't they then? As I said, he's a face now, he's feuding with heels. I mean how exactly would he turn face at WM? What's he going to do? Beat them up? Done that. He's been a face ever since Legacy fully turned on him, yet nobody cares about the feud, or even him much more. His responses still aren't great, probably because the feud is awful and just been a failure from the beginning. I'm honest confused as to how he's going to turn face at WM...when he already has. And sod all's happened.

I wouldn't call Orton a face just yet.

WHile I myself am not entirely sure how he could "turn face" while wrestling legacy... I HAVE noticed how the fans have been wanting Orton to go face for awhile now. Personally I feel it was intended for Legacy to become face's by turning on Orton, but week after week I've heard the crowd treating Orton as the face over DiBiase and Rhodes. SO, while he's getting cheered for fighting his underlings, I don't see how continuing to fight his underlings (even at WM) could put him in any different position than he's already in.

That being said. Orton COULD play a great Austin-esque anti-face. I just don't see it coming about by doing the same thing he's been doing for weeks (months?)

[Jung]

The booking, to me, has clearly been designed for Orton to turn face on them.

He's been double teamed, double crossed and continues to take the fight to them. Face booking all the way.

So he feuds with heels, teams with faces, heck now he delivers face promos saying he respects HHH.

He is a face. What is there heel about him?!

The fans kind of do and don't want to cheer Orton. I mean they've had like since the Elimination Chamber to do it and well they haven't really. Watch the handicap match, or his match against Dibiase. Absolutely nothing. And the triple threat probably won't be any different. Why would it be?

If Orton isn't a face now, what can he now do to become a face? He's done everything.

For any good face or face turn, you need strong heels and Dibiase and Rhodes have been built as the complete opposite.

If I was them I'd have Cena beat Batista at WM, then Batista take Cena out the following night on Raw (that's assuming Cena needs time off for his back problems?!) and then Orton can face Batista.

Either way he won't work as a face until he has a heel threat and as I said, the Legacy feud has basically been horrible in every way for everyone involved.

[Twig]

Originally Posted by Jung The booking, to me, has clearly been designed for Orton to turn face on them. He's been double teamed, double crossed and continues to take the fight to them. Face booking all the way. So he feuds with heels, teams with faces, heck now he delivers face promos saying he respects HHH. He is a face. What is there heel about him?! The fans kind of do and don't want to cheer Orton. I mean they've had like since the Elimination Chamber to do it and well they haven't really. Watch the handicap match, or his match against Dibiase. Absolutely nothing. And the triple threat probably won't be any different. Why would it be? If Orton isn't a face now, what can he now do to become a face? He's done everything. For any good face or face turn, you need strong heels and Dibiase and Rhodes have been built as the complete opposite. If I was them I'd have Cena beat Batista at WM, then Batista take Cena out the following night on Raw (that's assuming Cena needs time off for his back problems?!) and then Orton can face Batista. Either way he won't work as a face until he has a heel threat and as I said, the Legacy feud has basically been horrible in every way for everyone involved.

Well... I'm getting the distinct impression that you're paying a lot closer attentino than I... but I thik we're agreed on one thing... and that's that fighting legacy isn't going to turn anyone into a huge babyface.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Jung I just don't understand the whole "he'll turn face, give the fans what they want, they've been dying to cheer him etc"....well why haven't they then?

I'm not sure if I'm getting what you mean with this, but are you asking why the fans aren't cheering/chanting for Orton? If you are, then I think you need to pay more attention to his matches/segments; the fans have been chanting "RKO" and "Orton" very loudly for the past couple of months now.

Also, I think you're misunderstanding me; I'm not saying the match against Legacy will push Orton into the upper-echelon of WWE greats, I'm saying that match will be the start, the catalyst for him to get there. Of course he'll need a bigger heel rival to get to that level, but his match with Legacy is where his face run will really start.

We're not going to agree on this, and that's fine, but it's what I think will happen. And, like I said, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

[Jung]

Originally Posted by DC I'm not sure if I'm getting what you mean with this, but are you asking why the fans aren't cheering/chanting for Orton? If you are, then I think you need to pay more attention to his matches/segments; the fans have been chanting "RKO" and "Orton" very loudly for the past couple of months now.

They have?

Against Sheamus they were fairly loud, but in the handicap match and against Dibiase, they were super subdued, not getting particularly behind him much. It's a smattering, but it's less than like Kofi and nowhere near like Cena or DX. He gets a good reaction when he comes out, like every star does, but in the match?

I mean considering how over he was a heel, he's nowhere near that level as a face.

[DC]

Originally Posted by Jung I mean considering how over he was a heel, he's nowhere near that level as a face.

I never said he was at that level as a face, more that this match at WrestleMania will, IMO, be the start of his rise to that level.