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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post


    Certainly indicates that the majority of rape cases are about power, not sex. Im not downplaying anythign to make a point, Im using evidence (evidence I had to go look up I admit, I was working from memory, not a good memory either. God bless google. ).

    Hope that helped.
    Not really, I've seen some of those exact sources cited in contrary articles. Plus one source?

    From the prefix from the source of the rapist definitions (Rape: power, anger, and sexuality: Groth et al):

    Accounts from both offenders and victims of what occurs during a rape suggest that issues of power, anger, and sexuality are important in understanding the rapist's behavior. All three issues seem to operate in every rape, but the proportion varies and one issue seems to dominate in each instance. The authors ranked accounts from 133 offenders and 92 victims for the dominant issue and found that the offenses could be categorized as power rape (sexuality used primarily to express power) or anger rape (use of sexuality to express anger). There were no rapes in which sex was the dominant issue; sexuality was always in the service of other, nonsexual needs.
    So, yes Power and Anger certainly were prime motivations but they always end in a sexual manner. It isn't all about power otherwise it wouldn't be sexual. "Sexuality was always...." "sexuality used primarily to express.." just as a couple of quotes.

    The bolded part shows that sexuality is AS IMPORTANT to understanding rape. Power may be a dominating motivation but it is not the whole picture.

    Interestingly the subjects for this source were all offenders who had been sent for one day to life into a mental institution on top of their sentences because they were considered dangerous. Exactly the kind of men who are anger or power rapists.

    There have also been studies which show some rapists do prefer rape to consensual sex (I don't have links to the exact studies so apologies there). even though these are a minority of offenders it does mean that "rape is all about power" is not a conclusive answer to anything.

    I'm not denying the importance of power. You are (not purposely) neglecting to include the importance of sexuality by putting all the emphasis of Power.

    Also I did Sociology at college, we did some study into these kind of things (not rape specifically on it's own but into gender roles etc which covers things like sexual deviancy). I'm not saying that makes me an expert but I do have experience of how "grey" the kind of sources you're quoting. These books can be used to back both sides of just about any argument.

    Hope that helps (that really was a joke by the way).
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega View Post
    I'm not denying the importance of power. You are (not purposely) neglecting to include the importance of sexuality by putting all the emphasis of Power.

    Because sexuality is secondary in the majority of rape cases. In wartime and in jail normally straight men have raped other men. Why? Power, showing you are 'da man'.

    Also I did Sociology at college, we did some study into these kind of things (not rape specifically on it's own but into gender roles etc which covers things like sexual deviancy). I'm not saying that makes me an expert but I do have experience of how "grey" the kind of sources you're quoting. These books can be used to back both sides of just about any argument.
    I did a couple of months on rape when I worked with the Doncaster Rape and Sexual Abuse Crisis Center (Or Dr Sacc as we called it ) at college. They wanted us to do a play about rape for their presentation to get more funding one year.

    Dont make me an expert either. But the one thing that was made very clear was that the experts agreed, in general, that power was the main thing.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
    Because sexuality is secondary in the majority of rape cases. In wartime and in jail normally straight men have raped other men. Why? Power, showing you are 'da man'.
    No doubt that is a factor DS but in both those situations the sexual denial of the situation contributes more highly.

    Also you say secondary as if in someway it's like 99% power and 1% everything else. Eeven your source says that Sexualtiy, anger and power are just as important when looking at rape. Because Power in itself is a dominating force motivationally doesn't mean the secondary motivators aren't just as important especially if the crime that is committed is a sexual act.



    I did a couple of months on rape when I worked with the Doncaster Rape and Sexual Abuse Crisis Center (Or Dr Sacc as we called it ) at college. They wanted us to do a play about rape for their presentation to get more funding one year.

    Dont make me an expert either. But the one thing that was made very clear was that the experts agreed, in general, that power was the main thing.
    Sorry I think you may have interpreted my post as trying to say I knew more about the subject or that you knew less. That wasn't it, I was just to do with the whole source thing and how I was looking at those.

    Also again, power is a dominating factor, it isn't the "main thing". Again saying that down plays the other aspects which the experts, from your own sources, have stated are important for understanding rapists.
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  4. #34
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    FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUU

    I just wrote out a reply and my laptop crashed. Bollocks to writing that again. To summerise it:

    I was only sharing my experience, not comparing education size in terms of rape (eerrrrr, so to speak).
    I havent ever seen a reliable source that puts desire above power in the majority of rape reasons.

    And Im out for now, I need to get on with my essay rather than hunting down rape statistics.

    Seriously, my recent google search history includes rape statistics, homosexuality and Greek pedarists.
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  5. #35
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  6. #36

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    Sex in general is about power (it's a hangover from our monkey days) so the chances of sex having more to do with rape than power are virtually nil. Hell, normal ****ing is more about power and prestige than the sex itself.

    Rapist are especially pathetic because they can only truly express power and thereby reach full sexual arousal when forcing a victim.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by etz View Post
    Sex in general is about power (it's a hangover from our monkey days) so the chances of sex having more to do with rape than power are virtually nil. Hell, normal ****ing is more about power and prestige than the sex itself.

    Rapist are especially pathetic because they can only truly express power and thereby reach full sexual arousal when forcing a victim.
    Who said sex had more to do with it than power?

    Also are you are adding in that there is a genetic reason for rape? Serious question, it has been an argument put forward by some people but I just want to know if that's actually what you mean.

    By the way if you are really saying that they can only reach full sexual arousal through rape you are saying it's about sex. You are saying that they prefer or in fact are only turned on by rape, that isn't about power that is pure sexual deviancy. Sure the power may turn them on but then the reason they are wanting the power is to be sexually gratified.

    I'd suggest you read Darkie's sources because (unless you are a rapists yourself and so have a better understanding than us) genuinely you are mixing up your own ideas with the evidence that's been presented.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by etz View Post
    Sex in general is about power.
    Ummm, no. Seriously, back that up with evidence from a reliable source.
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  9. #39

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    Though I don't argue rape is about power (or anger) as defined by my two learned colleagues of the subject. I also know that attraction is a subconcious Master to all men. I don't have any doubt that the motives are there, but their victim? In straight rape cases, the victim usually knows the rapist (or so I was told at school).

    However, I think we've deviated away from the type of rape, I think in this area we are looking more at the more dubious Date-rape.

    Furthermore, the whole thing has been taken out of context, the copper bascially said "I've been told I'm not supposed to say this – however, women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimised."

    He didn't say it to a rape victim, he was advising at a women's personal safety meeting.

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  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega View Post
    Who said sex had more to do with it than power?

    Also are you are adding in that there is a genetic reason for rape? Serious question, it has been an argument put forward by some people but I just want to know if that's actually what you mean.
    Only in so much as sex is as much a form of dominance display as it is about procreation, in our monkey brains. That's not really a reason, since throwing your shit at other monkeys is also a dominance display and you don't see many people outside mental institutions doing that. It's one way of acting out the need to assert dominance. You'll find compulsive (serial rapists and or killers, paedophiles etc.) violent offenders are actually quite pathetic in most respects, and the acts they commit are their only expression of power. Pretty much like lame-ass wifebeaters.


    Quote Originally Posted by Omega View Post
    By the way if you are really saying that they can only reach full sexual arousal through rape you are saying it's about sex. You are saying that they prefer or in fact are only turned on by rape, that isn't about power that is pure sexual deviancy. Sure the power may turn them on but then the reason they are wanting the power is to be sexually gratified.

    Not arousal, but full gratification, which is entirely about the power and has nothing at all to do with the sexual acts. The acts are simply the means to the end of achieving the power rush.

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