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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anime Otaku View Post
    Sex Positive is more that Sexuality and sex between consenting adults of any gender identity is nothing to be ashamed of, basically it opposes the extreme feminism (Sex between Men and Women is always rape even if she consents) and conservatives, particularly the religious right, that says sexuality is shameful and should not be expressed openly, and tries to push a hetronormative stance on people.
    I was making the distinction in this particular circumstance Anime not a genreal definition of what Sex Psitive is.
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  2. #22

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    You know what? This walk has affected me, it's made me think of a more appropriate saying that doesn't equal an acceptance of rape...

    "If you dress like meat, don't be surprised if you attract predators..."

    There! PC problem solved
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  3. #23
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    Oil spill you say? Why fire is what you need here....
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  4. #24

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    Nah!

    No one ever deserves to be raped, no one deserves to be burgled, but if you tell everyone on the street you're off in holiday for a week and leave the front door open, don't be surprised if some of your stuff has been nicked.

    Same way that anyone who dresses to entice runs the risk of bumping into someone who will not have an issue with forcing someone to have sex. OK, if she didn't dress up then she still could get raped, but you can put bolts on the windows and still get burgled, only there is less chance of it happening.

    So yeah, the statement is fairly open to a measure of caution, rather than it's your fault you got raped!
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  5. #25
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    Now Im no expert on rape, but isnt the main thing about rape the power and control aspect rather than actual desire for sex? In which case dressing 'slutty' makes little difference.
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  6. #26
    Or should I? Anime Otaku's Avatar
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    Yeah my (limited) understanding is that, with the possible exception of Paedophilia, sex crimes aren't really about sex so much as forcing your will on another person.
    We live in a world where we have to hide to make love, but violence is practiced in broad daylight.
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  7. #27
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    The point is about making yourself seem more of a target though, isn't it? Like Saz said, you are perfectly entitled to leave your front door wide open and most people won't nick your stuff but someone who is looking to burgle a house is going to go for the wide open door as opposed to a nice looking house with good security.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega View Post
    The point is about making yourself seem more of a target though, isn't it?
    But thats the point. If rape is about the power rather than the sex then how you look doesnt factor into it really. Its as likely if a woman is in trousers or a mini skirt.


    Study from Utah University.

    http://www.usu.edu/saavi/pdf/myths_facts.pdf

    Myth: Rape victims provoke the attach by wearing provocative clothing
    · Most convicted rapists do not remember what their victims were wearing.
    · Victims range in age from days old to those in their nineties, hardly provocative dressers.
    · A Federal Commission on Crime of Violence Study found that only 4.4% of all reported rapes involved provocative behavior on the part of the victim. In murder cases 22% involved such behavior (as simple as a glance).

    Lots of other stats about it can be found

    http://answers.google.com/answers/th...id/776945.html
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
    But thats the point. If rape is about the power rather than the sex then how you look doesnt factor into it really. Its as likely if a woman is in trousers or a mini skirt.


    Study from Utah University.

    http://www.usu.edu/saavi/pdf/myths_facts.pdf




    Lots of other stats about it can be found

    http://answers.google.com/answers/th...id/776945.html
    · Most convicted rapists do not remember what their victims were wearing.

    a) what about unconvicted? b) Maybe they don't remember but that doesn't answer if that had either a small or subconcious choice as to the target

    · Victims range in age from days old to those in their nineties, hardly provocative dressers.

    Your talking about rape of elders and minors here and if you really think about it those rapes are more likely to be motivated by the age of the victim than anything else anyway. Lets take a look at the age range of women who are going to be dressed in a certain way and then I'll take anything like this into account.

    · A Federal Commission on Crime of Violence Study found that only 4.4% of all reported rapes involved provocative behavior on the part of the victim. In murder cases 22% involved such behavior (as simple as a glance).

    Behaviour doesn't equal dress. I don't think this "stat" to be indicative of anything we're discussing.

    Plus you've proposed that rape is about power rather than sex but where is the evidence for that? You're downplaying the sexual element of the act to make a point. It's sexual dominance. they aren't forcing women to go home and clean the oven for them and the laundry.

    I'm not saying power has nothing to do with it and I'm not saying that dressing in a tweed skirt and thick jumper means you'll never be raped. Hell I'm not even agreeing really that the advice is even really worth very much on it's own. All I'm pointing out that a) it's not given as some controlling edict to control what women wear and b) that despite not ever stopping rape completely making people aware of something that could increase the danger is not a crime or something that should inspire some mass protest because of some poor wording.
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  10. #30
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    For most of your reply maybe you should read this from under that link with the stats I mentioned.

    http://pathwayscourses.samhsa.gov/va...supps_pg11.htm


    Quote Originally Posted by Omega View Post
    Plus you've proposed that rape is about power rather than sex but where is the evidence for that? You're downplaying the sexual element of the act to make a point. It's sexual dominance. they aren't forcing women to go home and clean the oven for them and the laundry.
    Sure, I'll present my evidence.

    First from the above link.

    Myth: Rape is a rare event that only happens to attractive young women, or women who are promiscuous or provocatively dressed.

    Fact: Anyone can be sexually assaulted. Rape victims include people of color, lesbians/gays, people with disabilities, and persons of every race, nationality, religion, and income level. Most sexual assault victims are wearing regular clothes like blue jeans or pajamas when they are assaulted, not provocative clothing.

    Myth: Strangers commit most sexual assaults at night in dark alleys.

    Fact: More than 75 percent of all sexual assaults are committed by someone the victim knows.4 Almost two-thirds of rapes and sexual assaults occur between the hours of 6:00 pm - 6:00 am, but not in dark alleys. They occur in the victim's dorm room or apartment.5 Victims assaulted in their homes suffer increased trauma because the violation occurred at a place where they believed they were safe.

    Or we could use

    http://www.hopeforhealing.org/types.html

    Or

    http://www.csom.org/train/supervisio.../01_02_03.html

    Groth identified three different kinds of rapists in his typology.


    Anger Rapists
    Anger rapists, as one would assume, are very angry men. Although they may be angry at women in general, or may react angrily to specific behavior of their victim, they are more often angry about a variety of issues in their lives. They cannot and will not face the difficult issues in their lives directly and in a pro-social manner.

    Anger rapists tend to use a significant amount of physical force when they subdue their victims—in most cases, far more force than is necessary to perpetrate the abuse. This often leaves victims severely battered and bruised on various areas of their bodies. Anger rapists also tend to be verbally abusive during their assaults—which are short in duration and very explosive in nature.

    Anger rapists tend not to plan their specific offenses. Rather, they act impulsively to take advantage of situations that have presented themselves. Victim choice depends solely upon whom anger rapists see as vulnerable and available at the moment they decide they want to offend. Between 25% and 40% of known rapes are committed by men who are considered anger rapists.


    Power Rapists
    The second type of rapist in the Groth typology is the power rapist. Power rapists—like anger rapists—use sexual assault as a way to feel powerful and in control. They do not, however, discharge anger during their offenses and they only use the physical force necessary to perpetrate the offense. If power rapists can gain control through threat and psychological coercion (rather than physical intimidation), they will do so. As a result, the physical injuries usually associated with anger rapists are less common with power rapists.

    The offenses themselves may last over a longer period of time than those committed by anger rapists, and may be repetitive in nature. Domestic violence offenders who commit sexual assaults against their partners are often power rapists.

    Power rapists, like anger rapists, often look for potential victims that seem vulnerable. Unlike anger rapists, however, they consider how much intimidation and force are necessary to gain control. Their preference is to attack potential victims who are both physically vulnerable and relatively easy to intimidate. Power rapists usually plan their offenses and may fantasize about how they are going to "look" and "feel."

    Certainly indicates that the majority of rape cases are about power, not sex. Im not downplaying anythign to make a point, Im using evidence (evidence I had to go look up I admit, I was working from memory, not a good memory either. God bless google. ).

    Hope that helped.
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