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  1. #21
    The Beltster's Avatar
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    You know, its funny. We all say thank God for Cornette, or thank God for Heyman, and I'm one of the people who is 100% pro Heyman, but what the f*ck did they ever do aside from go out of business? If Heyman or Cornette were so great, they wouldnt be sat at home with their thumb's firmly up their asses while Carter runs the 2nd biggest international promotion on the planet with a prime time TV slot, international distribution, national and international DVD, toy and merchandising deals and so on.

    She cant be that clueless, she is doing better than Cornette EVER done and as good as Heyman did, plus she hasnt gone out of business, at least not yet.

    Heyman and Cornette talk about how they could turn it around and do much better, those guys couldnt turn around their own shit, let alone anybody elses.

  2. #22

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    Beltster...Heyman created WWF Attitude, that's what he did. Oh, and Cornette booked his own territory from the ground-up, and even though it went bust (as did ECW), if you're suggesting Dixie is more successful in pro wrestling than Heyman and Cornette, clearly you're just as clueless as she is.
    Go here...and read stuff...

    http://www.thewrestlingpress.com/

    Christopher Hitchens, April 13th, 1949-December 15th, 2011. Hitchens was a great man, who taught many how to think, but not what to think.

  3. #23
    The Beltster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikidozan View Post
    Beltster...Heyman created WWF Attitude, that's what he did. Oh, and Cornette booked his own territory from the ground-up, and even though it went bust (as did ECW), if you're suggesting Dixie is more successful in pro wrestling than Heyman and Cornette, clearly you're just as clueless as she is.
    I know what both guy's did, you arent telling me anything I dont already know, but not surprisingly, you missed my point.

    Cornette booked his own territory from the ground up...and he went bust. He never had a prime time TV slot, he never had PPV, he never had a national TV deal, let alone international. He never had a video tape/DVD licensing deal, he never had toys or action figures and a licensing deal with a major toy company like Jakks Pacific, he never had merchandise in general. So he didnt do shit so he doesnt have a leg to stand on when he says he could do better than Dixie, because he tried and failed. End of story.

    Heyman had TV, PPV, DVD deal, toys and merchandise, so he did alot of the things Carter did, but he went bust, so whereas he definitely has a good argument for being a successful guy, he went bust too. Carter hasnt gone bust yet, she might in the future, but she hasnt yet, so until she goes belly up, she is doing better than both Heyman and Cornette, THAT'S my point and thats a fact (yeah, another fact!).

    Get a clue in future I'm begging you.

  4. #24

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    Dixie had better money backers who let her run further and further into the red, it's as simple as that. Both Cornette and Heyman were small companies that had to make money. Neither of their companies failed because their booking was shit, which, if TNA does fail, will be why it fails.

    Also, compare their rosters, then honestly ask yourself why Dixie was able to get TV. Trust me, it had nothing to do with her, and everything to with studio execs looking at the roster and going... hmmm, ratings like WCW was getting when it went bust, sure, why not. Obviously, I'm oversimplifying, but it had to play a factor in her landing TV.

    And Belty, please, try to defend the idea that PPV is dead and argue that it doesn't make her look clueless.... I mean, it's so dead that everyone else is making money from it.

  5. #25
    Senior Moderator Jimmy Redman's Avatar
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    You're comparing Cornette and Heyman to Dixie? How? The former are wrestling bookers, the latter is a wealthy woman who happens to own a wrestling company. Her "success" (God damn..) has nothing to do with her or much better a wrestling mind she is than anyone, she just puts the money up.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by etz View Post
    Dixie had better money backers who let her run further and further into the red, it's as simple as that. Both Cornette and Heyman were small companies that had to make money. Neither of their companies failed because their booking was shit, which, if TNA does fail, will be why it fails.
    Makes no difference, none at all. You can make any excuses you like, but Dixie still has all the things mentioned and Cornette could never manage to get ANY of them, and whereas Heyman did, he's still out of business. It doesnt matter how they get where they get, its whether they get there or not, so regardless of how much money she has backing her compared to the others, she still has taken her business further than either of Heyman or Cornette. Its as simple as THAT!

    Quote Originally Posted by etz View Post
    Also, compare their rosters, then honestly ask yourself why Dixie was able to get TV. Trust me, it had nothing to do with her, and everything to with studio execs looking at the roster and going... hmmm, ratings like WCW was getting when it went bust, sure, why not. Obviously, I'm oversimplifying, but it had to play a factor in her landing TV.
    TNA got TV long before they had the name heavy roster they have now. "Trust me" Trust you? Why, were you in on the meetings? Are you in the know? How do you know it had nothing to do with her? How do you know how good or bad the business package she put over and sold Spike TV on? You dont, you are making assumptions. The XWF had a star heavy roster and couldnt get TV, so that means nothing. She might not know wrestling, but she might be a beast in executive meetings, you and I dont know otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by etz View Post
    And Belty, please, try to defend the idea that PPV is dead and argue that it doesn't make her look clueless.... I mean, it's so dead that everyone else is making money from it.
    When did I defend the idea that PPV is dead? I didnt. That has nothing to do with that I'm talking about.

    I've specifically taken parts of what she has said that were either taken out of context or that I think she was wrongly being slated about, the rest I left alone, I'm not going to defend ridiculous comments like PPV is dead.

    Still, that doesnt change the things I did argue against and whether you, I or anybody else likes it or not, or wants to admit it or not, she has taken her wrestling company further than both Heyman and Cornette took theirs, that cant be argued and that was my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Redman View Post
    You're comparing Cornette and Heyman to Dixie? How? The former are wrestling bookers, the latter is a wealthy woman who happens to own a wrestling company. Her "success" (God damn..) has nothing to do with her or much better a wrestling mind she is than anyone, she just puts the money up.
    Who is saying any different? Who has said anywhere here that she has a better mind for wrestling? Nobody.

  7. #27

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    Yeah, because not having huge money backing has nothing at all to do with why Heyman and Cornette went out of business...

    Money gives you a lot of options, options Dixie had and they didn't.



    Quote Originally Posted by The Beltster View Post
    TNA got TV long before they had the name heavy roster they have now. "Trust me" Trust you? Why, were you in on the meetings? Are you in the know? How do you know it had nothing to do with her? How do you know how good or bad the business package she put over and sold Spike TV on? You dont, you are making assumptions. The XWF had a star heavy roster and couldnt get TV, so that means nothing. She might not know wrestling, but she might be a beast in executive meetings, you and I dont know otherwise.
    What I meant was, the TV executives would have been looking at the historical ratings of national TV wrestling, at their best and worst and gone "Hey, even when WCW was at it's worst, it still drew a 0.9". It was an easy sell, comparatively speaking, particularly because TNA had been moderately successful in the weekly PPV market. It was also a mainstream enough product that it wouldn't scare off people and yet also different enough from WWE to stand out. Plus, TNA in 2004 was shit hot.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beltster View Post
    Still, that doesnt change the things I did argue against and whether you, I or anybody else likes it or not, or wants to admit it or not, she has taken her wrestling company further than both Heyman and Cornette took theirs, that cant be argued and that was my point.
    As an owner, yes, because she has much bigger coffers. And it really is as simple as that. That's not discounting Dixie, it's just how it goes in business. Besides, she managed to get that money in the first place, so she gets all the credit for that.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by etz View Post
    Yeah, because not having huge money backing has nothing at all to do with why Heyman and Cornette went out of business...

    Money gives you a lot of options, options Dixie had and they didn't.
    WCW had bigger money backers than the WWF, plus they were owned by the network which gave them any time slots they wanted...out of business. Money isnt everything, it didnt save WCW and they had more money behind them than any other wrestling company in history.

    But again, thats still not changing the point I made. Regardless of ANY reasons, Dixie has had more success in wrestling than Cornette or Heyman. She doesnt have a better mind for it, she hasnt had the creative success, but she has taken her promotion to greater heights than either Heyman or Cornette did, and taking business in the US out of the equasion, TNA are doing pretty damn fine business around the rest of the world. The ONLY point I was making was that Dixie has taken her promotion further than the other guys and she has.

    Quote Originally Posted by etz View Post
    What I meant was, the TV executives would have been looking at the historical ratings of national TV wrestling, at their best and worst and gone "Hey, even when WCW was at it's worst, it still drew a 0.9". It was an easy sell, comparatively speaking, particularly because TNA had been moderately successful in the weekly PPV market. It was also a mainstream enough product that it wouldn't scare off people and yet also different enough from WWE to stand out. Plus, TNA in 2004 was shit hot.
    Dude do you know how hard it is to get a wrestling promotion up and running and sell it to a major network? Its not a case of them looking at some old WCW numbers from years before and giving them a slot, just like that, come on, you know better than that, lets get real here. If it was that easy, ECW would have gotten a slot with ease, ROH would have had one long ago, this new Florida promotion will bag one right away, the XWF would have gotten one right away...it doesnt work like that, plus its near impossible to sell advertising for wrestling if you arent WWE.

    Quote Originally Posted by etz View Post
    As an owner, yes, because she has much bigger coffers. And it really is as simple as that. That's not discounting Dixie, it's just how it goes in business. Besides, she managed to get that money in the first place, so she gets all the credit for that.
    Like I said, its not all about money or WCW would still be banging along just fine. And you cant just say "I've got loads of money, I'll have a TV slot on your network, thanks!" It just doesnt work that way...you and I both know that! She obviously has business savvy and can sell a good pitch. Its not just because she's got money, because if it was only about the cash, Spike TV wouldnt be paying Hogans salary and helping pay Flair and Stings too.

    And as for booking, you mentioned earlier how bad it is, but thats all subjective. I dont think TNA's booking is all that bad at all, their shows are vastly improved and for me, far superior in every way than that shit WWE is putting out, their main problem isnt booking, its marketing. They dont market themselves at all, and so loads of people dont even know they exist.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by etz View Post
    As an owner, yes, because she has much bigger coffers. And it really is as simple as that. That's not discounting Dixie, it's just how it goes in business. Besides, she managed to get that money in the first place, so she gets all the credit for that.
    Actually she doesn't have bigger coffers, her father does. He's the owner of Panda Energy, you know the one she asked to help buy out TNA, when they ran into financial trouble. The only reason she's president is because of it.

    Now I'm not saying she hasn't got good business sense, but TNA was already formed and she came in at the 11th hour with a blank check from Daddy. Yes she's managed to keep it afloat, but she's had lots of help in doing so.
    I'm a bit of a b*llshitter myself but occasionally enjoy listening to an expert. Please carry on.

    "Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."

    A rose by any other name, is just a pr*ck in a bush.

  10. #30
    The Beltster's Avatar
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    And AGAIN, that doesnt change the point! ok, lets make it really simple, answer the question:

    Who has taken their promotion to greater heights?
    1. Dixie Carter
    2. Paul Heyman
    3. Jim Cornette

    We only need a 1 name answer, no reasoning behind it, no excuses, no "but" this and that and we arent talking about creatively, we are talking about as a global business. Answer it.

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