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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Spears View Post
    Remembering that we can't blame Heyman at all for the demise of ECW whereas Vince Russo was basically WCW's executioner.
    Other than we can... its just we cant blame his booking, it was his business savvy that was the issue.
    ¿¡Por qué no te callas!?

  2. #12

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    As Darkstar says, Heyman can be blamed for ECW in the fact that he couldn't manage his finances and wasn't a particularly good businessman for a company who had positioned themselves in the awkward "too big for the indies, too small for TV" position where the only way was stagnation or death.

    However, his booking in that era, up until around 1998, was fantastic. ECW is a product that people remember being better than it really was and that's a testament to how well Heyman booked it. Not a single person in 2020 is going to look back at TNA today and go "wow, that was some awesome TV, let's make a DVD of it all" like they do with ECW. Then he went to WWE, booked Brock Lesnar to become one of the biggest stars in the company, headed up the SmackDown run of late 2002 which most still claim to be the peak of SmackDown's history, booked the utterly fantastic and never-to-be-duplicated ECW One Night Stand, went to OVW and made stars out of Kennedy and Punk whilst booking one of the most interesting angles in that company with Johnny Jeter and Matt Cappotelli, and then called it quits in time to remain an important figure, keep in touch with pop culture and work with Brock on his MMA career and such. Sure, a lot of his stuff is overrated and ECW wasn't really as good as people think it was, but the fact that people think it's better is a really really good thing for ECW's legacy because if the majority are praising it (the problem TNA has is that most people slag it off something fierce, some even making money from doing so), then it says a lot about his booking skills.

    Now, brace yourselves for "we've heard it all before" schtick. But seriously, if you think that then f*ck you because you're everything wrong with TNA if you don't accept it as fact.

    In comparison, Russo's TNA run has actually made D'amore something of a TNA Heyman because now everyone looks back and thinks "remember when TNA was the best company in the world in 2005? Why can't they be that good any more?" Again, wasn't mindblowing material, but it looks so good compared to the product today. And that' in this case, is less D'amore being great and more Russo being the drizzling sh*ts.

    The deal with Russo, compared to Heyman, is this: Russo is wrongly credited with the boom period of 1997/1998 WWF. People credit him with the Team USA v Team Canada feud that caught on fire when it was Cornette. People credit him with Austin when that was almost all Austin and Vince. People credit him with The Rock but The Rock credits Brian Gerwitz. Undertaker hates him. HHH hates him. He also booked a f*ckton of total garbage during 1999 (anyone remember when he swapped the champions leading into the Hardcore and Intercontinental title matches a week or two before Wrestlemania XV just because he could?), went to WCW, killed the ratings and PPV buyrates there, sank the company deep into the ground (not single-handedly, but he steered the Titanic right into the iceberg and then reversed and steered it in a couple of times more), went to TNA, booked two men whose gimmicks were that they were penises, went back to WWE and got fired after a single day for his stupid ideas, went back to TNA to make himself a TV character and kill buyrates again, left in time for Dusty to salvage the place and D'amore to flat out not only save the company but almost steer it into profit, and returned to once again kill buyrates, turn big stars into nobodies (Jeff Hardy, anyone?), keep ratings at a 1.1, and do absolutely nothing to help the company grow. I can't think of any mistake Heyman made as a creative mind (not a businessman, just in terms of writing) that has done as much damage as Russo has done.

    Even if Heyman is a charlatan, he's undeniably the road to a greater chance of success than Russo. So is D'amore. So is Raven. So is Mike Tenay, Don West, Tommy Dreamer. Hell, so is DC, Belty, myself, GoldStandard, Jayf... ok, not him, but everyone else on the entire planet. The oldest woman on Twitter who died today could book pro wrestling in 2010 better than Russo. At this stage, Heyman is right - it doesn't matter if it's Heyman or Velvet Sky as long as someone has a vision to make TNA a success. Russo is not that guy. Russo needs to be fired. Russo will always need to be fired. And when push comes to shove, the only guy, the ONLY GUY that Dixie is refusing 110% to fire is... guess who.

  3. #13

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    Well I should say it was hard to solely blame him. I mean with two national companies, one with Ted Turners money at their disposal and once with Vince McMahon he was pretty much doomed. He's still nowhere near as bad as Vince Russo.
    Keep in mind that what I've said is merely my opinion, but keep in mind that I'm always right.
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  4. #14

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    I think the biggest issue with Russo is if a company is sinking (which WCW already was by the time he joined and had been for months and TNA's been struggling for a long time) he never ever sees the bigger picture, re-evaluates the company and the current climate and identifies where he thinks success is.

    Russo was still peddling crash TV and stale re-tread ideas, and basically doing exactly the same schtick as he was doing in 2000, and it was failing then.

    People can argue "oh WWE is doing the same" but they make money out of it, so why fix it if in theory it's never broke? Might not be as strong but it still works. Whereas Russo is trying something, which hasn't worked in over 10 years and instead of going "well that didn't work, lets try something new" he just perseveres, carries on going nowhere and just blames other random things which are totally irrelevant.

    He's just trapped in this bubble where he can basically book 1 way and is still living off the fact that he was deemed as an important player back in 98/99. But 12 years down the line, has he got any new ideas or approaches?

    And Heyman's booking in 2002, as good as it was, was hardly rocket science. And it wasn't like it was the same as ECW. He went "we have 6 outstanding wrestlers...lets have them face each other all the time and just tease natural dissension and egos". And build up the guy who looks like a genetic freak...as an unstoppable monster.

    He just pays attention to who he has and plays to their strengths. Where as if TNA had the WWE of 2002 roster, does anybody think Russo's booking would change? Look at the roster he had in WCW in 99 and he basically booked garbage crash TV and it died.

    He's the worst example of a one trick pony who will never try anything, either cause he's blind to seeing it's faults or probably equally as truthful, he probably hasn't a clue how to.
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  5. #15

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    After reading all these posts, it makes you think that Dixie Carter is the worst business woman ever, and shouldn't be in charge of any company.
    I'm a bit of a b*llshitter myself but occasionally enjoy listening to an expert. Please carry on.

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  6. #16
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    The thing with Heyman and ECW by the end of 98 begining of 99 Dreamer was pretty much booking things Heyman was busy getting deals
    What Chocolate Bar does this wrestler look like.......

  7. #17

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    Mitchell, your posts read like Powerslam articles circa 2006.

    'Fire Russo' is a stupid, dated campaign that should of ended years ago. The guy books some shitty stuff, yes, but he isnt the sole booker of shitty stuff in all of wrestling. ECW most of the time was just a cluster**** of run-ins and random brawls and Heyman is lauded as a creative genius , yet TNA (Russo in particular) get the full brunt of the IWC's fury when they do they same thing.......

    Take off the rose tinted glasses and look from an unbiased perspective and you will see that Russo and Heyman arent a million miles away from each other at all. Blaming Russo for the death of WCW is utter crap, the task he had to start with was nigh on impossible. He didnt exactly make the TV crapper than it was either, if you watched WCW pre-Russo you would know it was the most messed up, shitty company ever in existence, there was no storyline continuity whatsoever.

  8. #18
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    I think the Russo hate is getting old. Especially as this year the booking as been very good.
    What Chocolate Bar does this wrestler look like.......

  9. #19
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    Yeah, lets keep this civil and not be baiting each other please.

    Anyhow, if you think ECWs booking was like TNAs then you certainly dont need to worry about rose tinted glasses, maybe a pair that you could see through at all would be a help instead.

    Heyman hid peoples weaker points, managed to build them where they were strongest to sell them to the crowds. Heyman booked logic, even with his swerves, and I cant think of a single swerve for swerves sake he ever did.
    None of that could be attributed to Russo.
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  10. #20

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    Because Rhyno coming out, beating everyone up and threatening to kill people unless he got a title shot is 'logic' of course, as are angles where Francine tells Justin Credible "no pussy until you win the title" then Credible goes on a losing streak, and Steve Corino doing things to Missy Hyatt with a cucumber and missing his match.

    ECW was as stupid as WCW at times, lets not have selective memory now.

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