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Omega
24-01-2012, 08:49 PM
Anyone who wants to be considered for the new head bookers post should submit an "application" here. Up to you what you want to include but it;s for everyone to see how you would do things and to convince them you are the person for the job.

WAYNE
24-01-2012, 09:07 PM
I am putting my name down for the job.

The first thing I'd do is return the set up to that of old, the PPV feedback rule will stay, but the opponent will have to comment on the writers work (Can give full feedback).

I will be reaching out to old and new writers and will be keeping Saz's idea for part time writers. Also a new PPV set up to be confirmed (Still six PPV's but a week or so longer for the big PPV's) Besides Battle Royale and Wrestlenova, I would look into seeing what the over four PPV's should be. Maybe one/two of them full gimmick PPV's.

I'd see if the writers wanted to do weekly or two weekly shows, and have the booking sent out before booking thread is up.

And the slots for single and/or tag team will stay open, but at the moment I don't think we'll be running a women's division to start off with.

I may also look to have someone as my number two as well as have Megz and Darkie (if they want) to bounce ideas off and to help me start out.

Thanks.

Omega
24-01-2012, 09:35 PM
Fed Style

We’ve suffered from falling numbers for long enough that I think something radical needs to be done. So my first proposal is that we go fully Role Play. This would mean ditching the match writing aspect of the fed all together and all shows will work from promos/skits only.

To accommodate this we need a way to decide who will win the “matches” on a show or PPV. So I suggest that for each week/show that a panel made up of myself, one writer and if possible one non-writer (maybe Inno if he is interested but anyone with an interest. Jamster perhaps?) will vote on who we think has submitted the best promos both for their character and to advance a feud. We will then put up a results card giving details of who won what matches and how and post in the better promos.

Fed structure

We’ll go back to one booker for everything. There’s not enough people to justify a team approach at the moment. We will have two titles. The World title and either the US or TV title depending on what people would rather have. Again there is little point in pretending to have a tag division when currently there are no tag teams even when people have had the option. Not to say that in future this may not become viable.

I will initially pair up people to feud against one another allowing both writers to essentially “book” the reasons for the feud and its build. Simply this is to let people stretch their creative legs and get a full idea of how they want their wrestler to behave. Whether that’s altering an existing character or creating a new one.

After the first build and PPV I will go back to directing the feuds a little more closely in the sense I will choose who feuds with who and if something specific comes to mind then I will create the structure of an angle for the writers to flesh out week to week. This isn’t radically different to how I’ve always booked so most people will be familiar with the content I give and expect to be followed.

By opening up the fed to role play what I hope will happen is that people will find it easier to write for multiple characters if they want. Since you don;t have to devote a large chunk of time to a full match each show you can write out one, two or several promos depending on what inspiration strikes. Also to this end I will remove the “Can’t use a character without asking” rule we’ve previously had to instate for continuities sake.

Before you scream “WTF” at the screen follow me here. If everyone can promo what they like and those promos are simply judged on to determine match winners it doesn’t make much difference whether one guy is taken out in one promo and fine in the next because from a readers point of view we will only make public the promos that are judges to have “won”.

What this means is that if you write a promo where you teabag your opponent twenty times on screen there is no point because you’ll look like a douchebag and not “win” against your opponent. The punishment is that you’ll have spent X amount of time writing a promo that will never been shown outside of the submissions thread. If you want to waste your time it’s no skin off of my nose or your opponents.

So again with that in mind I will be making some alterations to the actual forum structure. I liked Saz’s idea that writer submissions where kept from the readers initially. It means the above douchebag promo will never get shown. However I think closing off all the writing and writers from public view isn’t very welcoming. So I would make visible the creative thread for that week as we did before but writers will submit to a hidden thread all their work for a show. Critique will not be mandatory. The experiments with forced crits and rewarding reviews simply has made people any more interested in doing it. If people do want to then they can in the creative thread.

As before I think Saz was spot on with multiple slots so this will stay. For now a maximum of three slots would be available. All three slots can be singles guys or a tag team and manager or some combination that works for you. I will not force anyone to decide on a “main” character and simply put if you don’t use them then neither will I. That I think is fair, your contributions are what will tell me who I should expect promos from and who is a background guy or girl.

There’s no need for part time writers since all a part time writer was was someone who wrote promos only.

Show Structure

I will stick currently with a 2 weekly show and 6 PPV’s a year. If it turns out that people submit much more work then we will either do more shows and PPV’s or simply “brand” two shows and split the work between them.

As above you will submit a maximum of 6 promos in any given show into a submissions thread that all the writers can see in the same way we used to with the actual shows. Then say 2 days before the end of the week the thread gets locked, the panel vote on who wrote the best stuff and then a thread will go up with the best promos in it interspersed with the match results.

PPV matches will work in exactly the same way except that we will take into account all previous submissions so that you can’t save your best work for the PPV week whilst your feud partner has written everything else.

Your character profile will go up on the wiki as before but we will stop the need for massive movesets and you will be limited to 2 signature moves, 1 power finisher and 1 submission finisher per character. You keep your wiki page as up to date as you like BUT if someone gets something wrong about your character(s) and it’s not on the wiki page we will laugh and point at you.

Conflict Resolution

All problems will be dealt with in public. Why? Because PM’s don’t work in my opinion. You need to say something then you say it, the other person responds and if the rest of the fed think something about it they can say. If it gets out of hand then and only then I’ll tell you to take it to PM.

Final judgements are made by me. Again this is simply because someone has to make a decision at some point. Yes it dictatorial but ruling by committee isn’t going to work when everyone is writing for themselves. I can’t promise I’ll be nice but I can always promise to be fair.

Summation

This is simply the start. There are many things we can do and change to make the fed attractive to people and I won’t rule out anything. If you have an idea I want to know. I reserve the right to say no as head booker but that’s life folks. I have to run the place so I have to follow my gut feelings about where it’s going. A good idea will always be taken. Your input will always be my concern and your ideas will in future shape how the fed runs. You will have more control of your feuds and characters.

If something doesn't make sense or you want me to explain I will, if you want to know why I made a decision I will explain. If you want me to do something for you then I will try. If you want the fed to live then join in, take part and make it live again.

WAYNE
24-01-2012, 09:50 PM
Can you explain how the roleplay would work please. I've only ever done this type (TWOstars) of e-fedding.

EGL
24-01-2012, 10:23 PM
In RP feds you usually release the schedule for the next card (who faces whom) and then the handlers write "roleplays" for their character. There are different styles for this, some focusing more on the wrestler's personal life and telling that story, some shooting on their opponent and maybe anyone with whom the character is feuding, and then the ones where it's more story telling but based on the character as a wrestler. It seems like I'm missing some types of RPs but I can't really remember.

Anyway they're like the vignettes you do for a show but generally take place somewhere other than the arena, although some do prefer to do RPs in the arena.

Sometimes they are all written in response to one thread for each show, sometimes each match has its own thread, and other times people are allowed to post separate threads for each RP.

I assume this is what Megs means, unless he would count the promos on the show as your RPs.

From there, the roleplays between the two opponents are usually judged and a winner is chosen.

Some feds impose maximums and minimums for how many roleplays can or should be written per match and how long they can or should be. These days, it's more the norm to impose maximums on length and number of roleplays with a standard minimum of 1 RP per match (you can't win if you no-show).

Ruderz
24-01-2012, 11:25 PM
If I'm honest, I kind of like but dislike some of the things mentioned here so far. The idea of turning TWOStars into a role-play based fed doesn't click with me as TWOStars then becomes just like every single other fed on the internet that I could find in seconds with a quick google search, but then again taking away the match writing and you take away the part of TWOStars that the majority of people dislike and which puts the majority of people (I'm assuming) off from joining.

If TWOStars did go down the road of a role-play based fed, then everything Megs suggested would go well with it.

However I'm going to say, I don't have very good feelings for the future of TWOStars regardless on who takes over. When Saz took over I thought things were getting better, but now he's gone and we're essentially back to square one. Not that we really much left square one in the first place.

Maybe with the change to role-play based fed you might get more writers, but those writers could easily leave as soon as they came. I feel that with TWOStars in it's own unique aspect, it's more of a committment to join TWOStars rather than join any other role-play fed on the webzz exactly cause' of the amount of work, patience, frustration and time that will be spent within it.

Basically what I'm trying to say here in a nutshell is that I think TWOStars has died a death, as much as it saddens me to say and that perhaps, only just perhaps, we could save it from a change to a role-play based fed however if we do do that then TWOStars isn't TWOStars anymore. Well, for me anyway.

Oh, and I considered applying for this but I don't feel I'd make a good head booker. Or booker in general.

Maxximus
25-01-2012, 01:22 AM
If I don't have to write matches, I'm in(as a writer).

It's not that I hate writing matches, it's just honestly a lot of work. I could never do a five page match and be happy with it, so I'd have to spend some time on it and try to tel a story. A regular weekly match would be approaching 30 pages and I would still find something I wasn't fully happy with. It was quite draining, especially after writing a ppv match.

I also love the idea of opening up creative for everyone to view again. There were tons of guests browsing the creative forum when I would come in to read stuff at a late hour. So, yeah, I'd love to see a return of that. Creative was the best/most active forum for quite a long time. There was bickering and what not, but at least it was interesting.

I admire Saz for trying to keep the place running, but I felt like he kinda sterilized the place. It turned me off big time. I feel a return to the ways of old, with a bit of tweaking would be beneficial to writers and fans alike.

Omega
25-01-2012, 07:59 AM
Can you explain how the roleplay would work please. I've only ever done this type (TWOstars) of e-fedding.

Basically everything we did before but no match writing. It's not exactly the style that EGL mentions below because in "true" RP feds your promos can literally be anything set anywhere. You could do 6 promos about your character visiting his nan in hospital if that was what you wanted to do that week. Instead we'll keep with the idea that your submissions are segments of a show, these could be pre-taped vignettes if you want to do something away from the arena but it would have to work in the context of a show.


In RP feds you usually release the schedule for the next card (who faces whom) and then the handlers write "roleplays" for their character. There are different styles for this, some focusing more on the wrestler's personal life and telling that story, some shooting on their opponent and maybe anyone with whom the character is feuding, and then the ones where it's more story telling but based on the character as a wrestler. It seems like I'm missing some types of RPs but I can't really remember.

Anyway they're like the vignettes you do for a show but generally take place somewhere other than the arena, although some do prefer to do RPs in the arena.

As EGL says this is a nomral RP situation. I'm going to stick with our slightly "quirky" set up of having your roleplays be set out as if they'd appear on a show just like we've always done.


Sometimes they are all written in response to one thread for each show, sometimes each match has its own thread, and other times people are allowed to post separate threads for each RP.

I assume this is what Megs means, unless he would count the promos on the show as your RPs.

From there, the roleplays between the two opponents are usually judged and a winner is chosen.

in a nutshell the latter.


Some feds impose maximums and minimums for how many roleplays can or should be written per match and how long they can or should be. These days, it's more the norm to impose maximums on length and number of roleplays with a standard minimum of 1 RP per match (you can't win if you no-show).

Indeed. I vaguely hope that the fact you are seen to "win" during a show (ie you are judged to have written the best promos) that will counter the feeling of lack of title opportunities.


If I'm honest, I kind of like but dislike some of the things mentioned here so far. The idea of turning TWOStars into a role-play based fed doesn't click with me as TWOStars then becomes just like every single other fed on the internet that I could find in seconds with a quick google search, but then again taking away the match writing and you take away the part of TWOStars that the majority of people dislike and which puts the majority of people (I'm assuming) off from joining.

This is exactly the problem I faced when looking at what we could do to revive the fed. I loved that our shows read like a transcript of a real show. Trouble is as much as I loved it I wasn't prepared to put the time in to keep that tradition alive personally and almost all our best writers have complained of burn out.

I will say that if it ever comes to pass that the fed wants to write matches again then I'll bring it back like a shot.


If TWOStars did go down the road of a role-play based fed, then everything Megs suggested would go well with it.

Ta. :)


However I'm going to say, I don't have very good feelings for the future of TWOStars regardless on who takes over. When Saz took over I thought things were getting better, but now he's gone and we're essentially back to square one. Not that we really much left square one in the first place.

I don't disagree but the choices are do something or do nothing. This is something.


Maybe with the change to role-play based fed you might get more writers, but those writers could easily leave as soon as they came. I feel that with TWOStars in it's own unique aspect, it's more of a committment to join TWOStars rather than join any other role-play fed on the webzz exactly cause' of the amount of work, patience, frustration and time that will be spent within it.


Basically what I'm trying to say here in a nutshell is that I think TWOStars has died a death, as much as it saddens me to say and that perhaps, only just perhaps, we could save it from a change to a role-play based fed however if we do do that then TWOStars isn't TWOStars anymore. Well, for me anyway.

TWOStars with no one running it is dead. Some TWOStars, even if it's a watered down version, is better than none. At least that's how we saw it when we agreed for Saz to run things. We may have disagreed about his methods but if he'd have made it work then better we were wrong than being able to say "we told you so".


If I don't have to write matches, I'm in(as a writer).

It's not that I hate writing matches, it's just honestly a lot of work. I could never do a five page match and be happy with it, so I'd have to spend some time on it and try to tel a story. A regular weekly match would be approaching 30 pages and I would still find something I wasn't fully happy with. It was quite draining, especially after writing a ppv match.

Good to know, thanks.


I also love the idea of opening up creative for everyone to view again. There were tons of guests browsing the creative forum when I would come in to read stuff at a late hour. So, yeah, I'd love to see a return of that. Creative was the best/most active forum for quite a long time. There was bickering and what not, but at least it was interesting.

Really as soon as Jamster and I think EGL mentioned they were dissapointed that they couldn't see the creative thread I was sold on bringing it back warts and all. Yes, I'm sure people did get put off here and there with some of the bickering that went on. However, we're on a wrestling site where we all talk constantly about the backstage actions of wrestlers and bookers. Why make TWOstars different.


I admire Saz for trying to keep the place running, but I felt like he kinda sterilized the place. It turned me off big time. I feel a return to the ways of old, with a bit of tweaking would be beneficial to writers and fans alike.

Saz must be given credit for taking the baton and running with it. He put a lot of effort into making massive changes and he put in a lot of personal time into trying to make things work again. Wheterh or not it worked, to me, shouldn't matter because if he hadn't of bothered the fed would already be dead. Now I'm only trying to do something different again and it may not work and we'll be back here in 6 months but I'll give it a go.

Maxximus
25-01-2012, 09:34 AM
I officially second Omega as head booker. No offense to anyone else but 'Megaman has experience and I trust him with the fed.

no homo

The B-Man
25-01-2012, 11:49 AM
I have a list of ideas that I will certainly post in due course but what I will say is I don't think any one man can run this ship on their own, so I would be the first to put my hand up and say if offered the position of head booker I would want someone alongside me as close to an equal as possible. Then depending on what decision needs made we can invite the third opinion from those involved.

One Idea I would like to suggest is a bit of a roster split (People like their time off so if we tried to get a roll call every couple of weeks and have it 6-8 people write one week then 6-8 the next) This would ideally keep ideas fresh, avoid as much burn out and keep people more flexible.

I hate the idea of it becomming a role play feed though. Reason being is I think there is room for both in TWOStars more than anything

Maxximus
25-01-2012, 11:54 AM
The detail we put into matches puts new people off. We're living in an age when most people have the attention span of a 140 character sms.

I think rp is the next step and I support the idea.

EDIT:

Unless...

What if we only had one written match per show? I'm talking about the main event. Writers could also have the option to write their ppv match as well. If the match doesn't get taken then it's just voted on rp style.

That might be a winner.

Magic
25-01-2012, 12:03 PM
As someone who has never fedded before but would maybe like to get involved, I'd prefer the Role Play option, simply because I wouldn't have the time, energy or the know how, to write full matches.

Omega
25-01-2012, 12:12 PM
There's more than enough room in the fed, just not in peoples lives.

The B-Man
25-01-2012, 01:16 PM
If Roleplay is the option I see this is a very sad day in TWOStars History as it was the one thing that set us apart as different.

Maxximus
25-01-2012, 01:23 PM
I think what set us apart was our creativity. Match writing should be optional and match writers rewarded in some way for their extra effort.

No one is saying you can't write matches Bazza. From my perspective we're all just looking for a way to keep 'Stars running. I don't want to write matches all the time, but I like having the option. It's better than no 'Stars at all.

In fact, TWO in general took a big hit. We lost a lot of regular members with the last change over.

Omega
25-01-2012, 01:51 PM
To be brutal Baz we weren't the only fed in the whole world with full match writing, in the minority maybe but not unique.

There's no point in desperately trying to retain something that is actively causing the fed to die in my opinion. It is sad but it's also a fact.

However, get your manifesto in and then we'll put up a poll. If people really want to keep writing matches then you've got the advantage.

Also, if people wanted to write a full match for a PPV then I'd be behind that but I'm not going to make it compulsory.

The B-Man
25-01-2012, 03:19 PM
To be brutal Baz we weren't the only fed in the whole world with full match writing, in the minority maybe but not unique.

There's no point in desperately trying to retain something that is actively causing the fed to die in my opinion. It is sad but it's also a fact.

However, get your manifesto in and then we'll put up a poll. If people really want to keep writing matches then you've got the advantage.

Also, if people wanted to write a full match for a PPV then I'd be behind that but I'm not going to make it compulsory.

Yeah I know what you mean. My problem with the roleplay format as described in a previous post by EGL is the E-Fed then becomes more of a competition and for me it's not really about that.

Maxximus
25-01-2012, 03:29 PM
C'mon, B! Everyone in the fed, at one time or another, was trying to out promo some one. There's always been sort of a competition even if the outcome is predetermined.

It'll be fun. I'm not really a fan of change, but I think we have a great opportunity here.

Fletch
25-01-2012, 03:39 PM
As an outsider who hasn't been around for the best part of 2 years, RP feds utterly suck.

What made TWOStars stand out was that everything by and large was public, and it had a different style. Each post on the show threads were different, different styles, tones etc. Each match was unique based on who wrote it. Sometimes the shows were promo heavy but it showed that people wanted to write even if they weren't so confident at match writing.

Sticking to the same formula could still work, but keeping shows to 1-3 matches long at most and optional whether or not you wanted to write without really punishing those who can't wouldn't be too far from the glory days. The shows would be promo heavy, but then, writers could always write squashes against jobbers on occasion, giving match writing experience, without it being forced on them.

As I say, just an outside old readers opinion

Maxximus
25-01-2012, 03:45 PM
Yeah, the more I think about it, the combination of the two would be best.

We could also do a "from the vault" match every show. Post a classic match to help keep those stories and stars relevant to the history of 2Stars. It might give the new(and old alike) writers the motivation to try match writing.

There are a ton of possibilities.

Omega
25-01-2012, 03:47 PM
2 years ago maybe. 2 years has been a long time and the fed simply wasn't working like that.

Omega
26-01-2012, 10:47 AM
Baz, Is there any chance you could post your proposals before the weekend? I'd love to get the poll up and running on saturday.

Boyo
26-01-2012, 12:05 PM
It will be weird to see TWOStars as a full-on RP fed because it's made it's name and created it's legends, almost without prejudice, on the strength of the better match-writers. Whenever us old boys and girls reminisce about our favourite moments, it's almost always a match that's fondly remembered. The "Special Collections" forum is choc-full of brilliant matches. The matches are the pay-off. The matches are the heartbeat of the fed.

The matches are also the hardest slog of the fed and, I'm saying this from a point of some ignorance, one of the primary reasons why people are leaving. It's not that people don't love a great match, especially if their character is involved in it, but it seems people don't have the time, energy, motivation even... for writing matches. (For the record, match-writing was "a consideration" for my leaving. They were getting to be a bit of a chore to be honest. Overwhelmingly, my main reason for leaving was that I had made Boyo too old and I didn't particularly like Ken. Plus my PC died - still not replaced).

I think matches - full, proper matches - should remain in TWOStars, but I think there should be a rule about them. Perhaps only title matches should be written up on the weekly shows. That doesn't mean that there has to be a title match every week of course, you can have some weeks promo-only, and the odd week you could have a title match which is written in full.

Of course, if someone volunteers to write a match then that person can write a match!

PPV's should have every match written up in full - you've got to, it's a PPV.

The way I see it, and it's a flawed view I admit, is that if Ruderz is a non-title holder and absolutely killing everyone else with promos each week - some long promos, some short promos, comedy promos, epic promos - all manner of promos... and is clearly writing pages and pages of gold before submitting it to be posted, then not only has Ruderz clearly earned a title shot, but he's also demonstrated he's got the things absolutely essential to match-writing (time, ideas, consistency, a grip on his character, and motivation). There's no reason to suggest that if he can write 10 pages of promo gold a week, that he cannot write a 10 page match. It may be more difficult, but when is being the best at anything easy?

But yeah, make matches something to savour; only have them when people have demonstrated ideas and energy; and get that person to write them.

It's not perfect, but it could help save TWOStars.

Cheers!

Maxximus
26-01-2012, 12:56 PM
This is kind of a hot debate. I'm very interested in seeing the results of the poll.

Omega
26-01-2012, 01:14 PM
We've tried cutting down match writing, hell Saz had part time writers who were there to step in in dire need and it just didn't make a difference. Under my plans those part timers would be full timers, people like Wayne who get massive grief about no showing aren't under the same pressure, the top guys don't get burnt out because they're the only one who regularly write their matches and newbies can ease themselves into the fed quickly and without the whole "OMG, you f*cked the show up Nuub" that comes with not being Tolstoy straight off the bat.

Plus, and I really don't want this to sound personal at all, it's very very easy to say "Well, I'm really sad and upset TWOStars is dropping match writing" when you aren't actually writing for the fed. It's serving no practical purpose to complain about it UNLESS you want to throw your hat in the ring and give booking the fed with match writing a shot. I've put my case as to why I think it's a necessary evil to drop it as compulsory, if you think different and it matters to you then get stuck in, please. I'd rather there were more options than just "megz because he's done it before". :)

Plus on Boyo's note about "if you write 6 promos you might as well have written a match". that's not true at all. In reality writing out one page of a promo (or half a page even) can take you 20-30 minutes when the inspiration strikes. Writing 10 pages for a simple TV match when you have no inspiration and you HAVE to do it (especially if you have to do it because the other person in your feud has already said they can't/won't) kills people and it's killed the fed. Multiply that frustration with the lack of numbers we've been trying to work with and that to me is why the fed has died.

The B-Man
26-01-2012, 01:31 PM
Baz, Is there any chance you could post your proposals before the weekend? I'd love to get the poll up and running on saturday.


Sure thing I will get something posted tonight, but an idea of numbers would be good to see what is being worked with first, thought I guess that depends what way we are going forwad too so it's catch 22.

I'll post my ideas anyway

Maxximus
26-01-2012, 01:36 PM
Besides, megz has done this before.

Ruderz
26-01-2012, 03:22 PM
I must admit that promo's (for the majority of the roster) were the more stronger aspect they were better at. Maybe, if Stars did turn into a rp based fed (however I do like the idea of match writing being voluntary/awarded to those who have the motivation etc) then it could maybe work... if we kept the show theme. I personally wouldn't want to care about 'what the wrestler is thinking' in italics, I don't care if they go to Hawaii at the weekend and think for about 5 minutes on their PPV Title shot while sipping on a drink and getting some sun.

Another thing that actually on thinking about I'm not happy with, if I wrote a promo and I loved it, was totally happy with everything I'd wrote and thought it was the best promo I'd ever done... Only for mine not to be posted because the other person's promo was deemed as better by a panel. It turns Stars' from an organised, wrestling company style into a subjective game in my opinion. Some people will like something that others will dislike, not to mention some people may have personal grudges or general dislike of the person submitting the work and they may or may not subconciously dislike their work for the sole reason it's that person writing it. Personally, I wouldn't want my title shot to be hanging onto whether or not people like my promo better than the other person's promo as it's totally subjective. If my work wasn't posted, I'd be pissed. If I write something I want everyone to be able to view it.

The forums (apart from submission forums) should be made open to the public again. Bickering may put people off, but it may also entice them to be apart of the community. Every community has disputes.

I was once in an rp based e-fed where the winners were decided via rp and then the show was written out by pre-determined (volunteered) match writers. The same thing could apply here, if we get enough match writers.

I think if we keep the show format, following the show as if it's a pre-recorded Smackdown, without having stupid skits that have nothing to do with the show, keep out the stupid formatting that plagues many rp based e-feds, stick to our format, determine who wins with promo's, keep the 'can't use characters without permission' rule so that people don't clash over promo's, post EVERY promo (if someone is bad, then why hide the fact they are bad? On the other hand, if someone is good, show the public readers they are good), perhaps have volunteer match writers (who could be active handlers or people who just want to help out, like Saz's part-time writers except they don't do promo's and only write the actual shows) to write the actual results/shows and bear in mind it doesn't have to be blockbuster 20 pages (unless you were motivated to do so), get rid of the training academy and have new handlers learn 'on the job' so to speak, perhaps we could introduce mentors to newer handles, show them the ropes, veteran Stars' writers who help the newer ones with promo's, character direction, match writing if they choose to do so... We should NEVER allow real wrestlers to be used such as HHH or Shawn Michaels or John Cena etc etc.

For new handlers I have an idea. Why don't we have two shows, TWOStars's XTV for the veteran writers who are comfortable with their character and their writing style then a sub-show with it's own name and general manager for the newer wrestlers/jobbers and it can act like the training academy except it's 'on the job' and the public read the sub-show shows and the newer handlers can flesh out their characters, learn the nitty gritty, be mentored (mentors obviously wouldn't be needed for XTV handlers) and when they feel they are ready and are given the go-ahead by the man in charge, they 'graduate' to XTV. This could also open up future cross-brand feuds with 'old vs new' and have show invasions, etc etc. This way, the new handlers are introduced to the fed gently and given plenty of time to get used to the fed style without feeling as if they are wasting their time on training and tasks and a feel of satisfaction as they graduate. Obviously there would be mini-titles for them to win and such. Just an idea I particularly am fond of.

Omega
26-01-2012, 03:37 PM
I'm going to read your post in full Rudes but I just wanted to respond to this important point:


Personally, I wouldn't want my title shot to be hanging onto whether or not people like my promo better than the other person's promo as it's totally subjective.

This is EXACTLY how the fed worked before except replace the idea of "each promo each week being judged" with "all your work across a month without you even knowing if you've done well". You wre always judged on your input, we simply didn't use it to say what went on a show. Your title shots were always and have always been about your ability.

Ruderz
26-01-2012, 04:13 PM
I'm going to read your post in full Rudes but I just wanted to respond to this important point:



This is EXACTLY how the fed worked before except replace the idea of "each promo each week being judged" with "all your work across a month without you even knowing if you've done well". You wre always judged on your input, we simply didn't use it to say what went on a show. Your title shots were always and have always been about your ability.

It was more so on the idea that my work may be getting judged by someone who doesn't like me or has a grudge and it may be subconciously biased. Not specifically my work, everyone's work. It's totally subjective and in my opinion can cause a bit of controversy.

Omega
26-01-2012, 04:17 PM
I just don't understand where you make the distinction between the previous booking team making the decisions based on personal opinion and having a panel of people doing exactly the same thing? There is literally NO difference in the decision process between the old and proposed new fed except that you get a decision each week instead of once a month.

Ruderz
26-01-2012, 04:24 PM
I just don't understand where you make the distinction between the previous booking team making the decisions based on personal opinion and having a panel of people doing exactly the same thing? There is literally NO difference in the decision process between the old and proposed new fed except that you get a decision each week instead of once a month.

No you're right there is no real difference, I guess it'd just be something I'd need to get used to. I think, because it was more so a monthly decision and overview of your work it practically slipped my mind that there is no real difference between the weekly and monthly decisions.

Omega
26-01-2012, 05:46 PM
The forums (apart from submission forums) should be made open to the public again. Bickering may put people off, but it may also entice them to be apart of the community. Every community has disputes.

Agree totally.


I was once in an rp based e-fed where the winners were decided via rp and then the show was written out by pre-determined (volunteered) match writers. The same thing could apply here, if we get enough match writers.

Maybe, thing is we don't have the writers. It's the nub of the problem basically.


I think if we keep the show format, following the show as if it's a pre-recorded Smackdown, without having stupid skits that have nothing to do with the show, keep out the stupid formatting that plagues many rp based e-feds, stick to our format,

Agree totally again. I've tried pure RP feds and the stupid play script format is stupid and pointless so we stick with the "style" as is.


determine who wins with promo's, keep the 'can't use characters without permission' rule so that people don't clash over promo's, post EVERY promo (if someone is bad, then why hide the fact they are bad? On the other hand, if someone is good, show the public readers they are good),

I'd like to see if the permissions rule can be left out, if in practice this means too many treaded toes to make a decent show then we bring it back and on that basis we could probably post everything. The reasoning behind not using it is simply that it means no limitations, you don't have to shelve a potentially great idea just because someone has an avergae idea. Plus once that first promo is posted people are going to be aware of where you are going anyway. And there is still nothing to say you can't work with people on stuff exactly as you did before.


perhaps have volunteer match writers (who could be active handlers or people who just want to help out, like Saz's part-time writers except they don't do promo's and only write the actual shows) to write the actual results/shows and bear in mind it doesn't have to be blockbuster 20 pages (unless you were motivated to do so),

Thing is, no one is going to be part time just for match writing. You couldn't get full time writers to write. what would motivate someone to write matches for other people who couldn't be arsed?


get rid of the training academy and have new handlers learn 'on the job' so to speak, perhaps we could introduce mentors to newer handles, show them the ropes, veteran Stars' writers who help the newer ones with promo's, character direction, match writing if they choose to do so

Might be something here. I shall consider it certainly. I doubt the training site will ever be used for that anymore anyway so a new way does have to be found.


... We should NEVER allow real wrestlers to be used such as HHH or Shawn Michaels or John Cena etc etc.

Never on my watch. Quickest way to get WWE/TNA on your case.


For new handlers I have an idea. Why don't we have two shows, TWOStars's XTV for the veteran writers who are comfortable with their character and their writing style then a sub-show with it's own name and general manager for the newer wrestlers/jobbers and it can act like the training academy except it's 'on the job' and the public read the sub-show shows and the newer handlers can flesh out their characters, learn the nitty gritty, be mentored (mentors obviously wouldn't be needed for XTV handlers) and when they feel they are ready and are given the go-ahead by the man in charge, they 'graduate' to XTV. This could also open up future cross-brand feuds with 'old vs new' and have show invasions, etc etc. This way, the new handlers are introduced to the fed gently and given plenty of time to get used to the fed style without feeling as if they are wasting their time on training and tasks and a feel of satisfaction as they graduate. Obviously there would be mini-titles for them to win and such. Just an idea I particularly am fond of.

It's a bit of an "if" idea because it relies on us having so many new people joining tnat we'd need to split the roster. In theory I'm not opposed to the idea though.

Boyo
26-01-2012, 06:53 PM
We've tried cutting down match writing, hell Saz had part time writers who were there to step in in dire need and it just didn't make a difference. Under my plans those part timers would be full timers, people like Wayne who get massive grief about no showing aren't under the same pressure, the top guys don't get burnt out because they're the only one who regularly write their matches and newbies can ease themselves into the fed quickly and without the whole "OMG, you f*cked the show up Nuub" that comes with not being Tolstoy straight off the bat.

Plus, and I really don't want this to sound personal at all, it's very very easy to say "Well, I'm really sad and upset TWOStars is dropping match writing" when you aren't actually writing for the fed. It's serving no practical purpose to complain about it UNLESS you want to throw your hat in the ring and give booking the fed with match writing a shot. I've put my case as to why I think it's a necessary evil to drop it as compulsory, if you think different and it matters to you then get stuck in, please. I'd rather there were more options than just "megz because he's done it before". :)

Plus on Boyo's note about "if you write 6 promos you might as well have written a match". that's not true at all. In reality writing out one page of a promo (or half a page even) can take you 20-30 minutes when the inspiration strikes. Writing 10 pages for a simple TV match when you have no inspiration and you HAVE to do it (especially if you have to do it because the other person in your feud has already said they can't/won't) kills people and it's killed the fed. Multiply that frustration with the lack of numbers we've been trying to work with and that to me is why the fed has died.
My point was that TWOStars has always had matches written, and to go to a format where there are no matches will simply be weird. Not wrong, but weird. TWOStars was one of the few Feds that had matches.

It's also a bit erroneous to say that just because someone doesn't or hasn't written for TWOStars means they should either return to the fed or not input to this thread. I think I have contributed enough to this fed over the years to have a say. And even if I hadn't written a lick ever, I still would still have a say.

It's a conundrum though, and reading your latest post I'm not sure you can please everyone. Some people will want to write a lot, some people won't, but everyone wants to have the same rewards.

Cheers!

Omega
26-01-2012, 07:34 PM
My point was that TWOStars has always had matches written, and to go to a format where there are no matches will simply be weird. Not wrong, but weird. TWOStars was one of the few Feds that had matches.

Again I refer to my previous post: Why try keeping something that's killing the fed?


It's also a bit erroneous to say that just because someone doesn't or hasn't written for TWOStars means they should either return to the fed or not input to this thread. I think I have contributed enough to this fed over the years to have a say. And even if I hadn't written a lick ever, I still would still have a say.

I didn't say that though Boyo so please don't put words in my mouth.... or fingers, I guess. My point was that it's very easy to have an opinion of how you'd like something to be when you aren't having to actually do those things yourself. It's very easy to say "TWOStars should stay match writing because it's traditional and interesting" when you aren;t actually writing every week. It doesn't effect you personally if we stick with match writing or not, it simply appeases your sensibilities to say thhe old fed was the best and it should stay that way if you don't mind me paraphrasing you slightly. I totally understand why you thionk like that, personally I'd agree that everything being equal we'd stick with it but the reality of the situation is that Match Writing has been THE subject in regarsd to what has put people of staying with the fed. It needs to be acknowledged that is the case because if people really want to keep writing matches then they need to be preapred to do this week in and week out otherwise what's the point of placing the millstone around peoples necks.


It's a conundrum though, and reading your latest post I'm not sure you can please everyone. Some people will want to write a lot, some people won't, but everyone wants to have the same rewards.

We never could. If we keep match writing then all the same old issues exist. If we dump it then we may well get the fed working again and maybe that will make people who are sceptical of the changes want to come back. To me it's the choice of doing the same thing and expecting different results or actively trying something new and at least giving it a go. My personal opinion of course.
Cheers![/QUOTE]

The B-Man
26-01-2012, 07:42 PM
Ok because I am feeling quite tired tonight I am going to make this as easy as I can for now. Any question do feel free to ask.

My Suggestion is to go back to the old format with a few changes:

TV Shows

Firstly this will depend on the number of writers we have but I have two suggestions for this:

Bigger Roster

We have two TV shows with it being Week 1 Raw, Week 2 SD for example

This gives people a week off as it will be kind of a roster split but not. What I would like is a bit of a roll call happening each fortnight with people anticipating when they would be more free to write.

Smaller Roster

We have the one show but it lasts 2 weeks at a time giving people more time to get things done such as matches.

E-Fed Style

Well as I have said I would want this back to the old way of doing things however as match writing is not the most favourable thing in the World for everyone to do and whilst I would want to strongly keep this as part of the e-fed the old way is out and I suggest the following:

Firstly stick with my method that each match is valued as one minute of action as a rough guideline then:

Not including Entrances (Which I am more than happy to be kept short with the aid of the Trons anyway)

Standard Television Match – 3 to 6 Pages
Main Event TV match – 4 to 10 Pages (Depending on situation)

Standard PPV Match 6-12 Pages
PPV Title Match – 8-15 Pages
Main Event PPV Match 15-20 Pages

If there is any further questions I will be happy to answer but thems the basics to how I think would work

etz
26-01-2012, 07:58 PM
Ok, so I know this isn't really my place since I more or less just lurk and read, but couldn't a shorter version of matches be achieved by having what amounts to old school PBP commentary instead of detailed match descriptions? By extending the commentary to be slightly more detailed, you could drop most, if not all, of the exposition. Just a thought, and some people might hate just writing commentary.

John Hancock
26-01-2012, 08:18 PM
If the fed's getting rebooted into a role-playing thread, it might be worth at least doing one last super-show in the old format. Given enough time, I'm sure a hell of a lot of the old writers would come back for one last hurrah of dream matches. Fade out to "Leave the memories alone", and then you can reboot it however you want. It's just that, from the Champagne Room alone, there's clearly a lot of people who are still nostalgic about TWOStars, and if the format's destined to go, and it seems like it is, I think the "classic" format deserves the right goodbye.

EDIT: You could even make it the final Wrestlenova

WAYNE
26-01-2012, 08:41 PM
With all the bookers who can giving idea's for the show?

Boyo
26-01-2012, 08:49 PM
I know I'm not writing now but I have written before and, to be fair, booked too. But your opinion is fair enough, and I do agree with your sentiments.

If it's match writing that's killing the fed, then matches have to go, but my "devil on your shoulder" suggestion is that you have to be totally sure that it's match writing that's killing the fed.

I don't have any other suggestions though :lol that's why I'm leaving it to you maniacs to run and come up with things!

Cheers!

Boyo
26-01-2012, 08:51 PM
If the fed's getting rebooted into a role-playing thread, it might be worth at least doing one last super-show in the old format. Given enough time, I'm sure a hell of a lot of the old writers would come back for one last hurrah of dream matches. Fade out to "Leave the memories alone", and then you can reboot it however you want. It's just that, from the Champagne Room alone, there's clearly a lot of people who are still nostalgic about TWOStars, and if the format's destined to go, and it seems like it is, I think the "classic" format deserves the right goodbye.

EDIT: You could even make it the final Wrestlenova
This keeps being mooted and I'd love to see this happen.

Cheers!

dsrchris
26-01-2012, 08:51 PM
For what my opinion is worth on this (bearing in mind I probably won't be writing in the new fed, purely down to time constraints), I'd like to see the option remain to write a match here and there if you fancy it. There's been a whole bunch of instances where matches have been natural progressions to promos, and it'd feel kinda lame to have all this hype and build up through promos, and not have some kind of blow off encounter to end it (obviously if a writer wanted to write it).

Going from personal experience I can think of at least two or three feuds/angles that wouldn't have been half as good if I hadn't been able to sum it all up in a match at the end. The feud between JOnes and Samson was essential super heavy on the promos, but without the Streetfight blow off then it wouldn't have been as good, or as well received I reckon.

I'm not saying make matches mandatory, but sometimes certain angles just progress naturally to a point where some writers would think "This match would be awesome" and they instantly think of loads of spots, how the match is gonna go down, and how it can progress/end the angle.

I just think it's a shame to completely take away the option of writing a match if someone fancies a stab at writing one. If no-one fancies a match, then they promo and folks vote on it in the roleplay fashion.

Even though I won't be writing, I'll most definitely be reading regardless of whoever takes over. I would like to see a return to the setup of old, with the everything but the actual bookers forum being on general display, though. I always thought it was nice to see writers discussing what's going on, it's what got me interested and enrolled in training in the first place.

Maxximus
26-01-2012, 08:53 PM
Along the lines of etz thought process... perish the thought. The idea of restructuring the way matches were written might be compelling. Say, for instance we write a brief summery of the match with full entrances and we detail the final moments(the finish). That would cut out the part of the match most people skip. I hate to use Jayfunk as an example, since he's not here to defend himself, but that's exactly what I did for every single one of his matches. To be honest I did that with most matches over 5 pages or so.

Just another thought.


For what my opinion is worth on this (bearing in mind I probably won't be writing in the new fed, purely down to time constraints), I'd like to see the option remain to write a match here and there if you fancy it. There's been a whole bunch of instances where matches have been natural progressions to promos, and it'd feel kinda lame to have all this hype and build up through promos, and not have some kind of blow off encounter to end it (obviously if a writer wanted to write it).

Going from personal experience I can think of at least two or three feuds/angles that wouldn't have been half as good if I hadn't been able to sum it all up in a match at the end. The feud between JOnes and Samson was essential super heavy on the promos, but without the Streetfight blow off then it wouldn't have been as good, or as well received I reckon.

I'm not saying make matches mandatory, but sometimes certain angles just progress naturally to a point where some writers would think "This match would be awesome" and they instantly think of loads of spots, how the match is gonna go down, and how it can progress/end the angle.

I just think it's a shame to completely take away the option of writing a match if someone fancies a stab at writing one. If no-one fancies a match, then they promo and folks vote on it in the roleplay fashion.

Even though I won't be writing, I'll most definitely be reading regardless of whoever takes over. I would like to see a return to the setup of old, with the everything but the actual bookers forum being on general display, though. I always thought it was nice to see writers discussing what's going on, it's what got me interested and enrolled in training in the first place.

+1 I agree with every last word.

Omega
26-01-2012, 08:54 PM
If the fed's getting rebooted into a role-playing thread, it might be worth at least doing one last super-show in the old format. Given enough time, I'm sure a hell of a lot of the old writers would come back for one last hurrah of dream matches. Fade out to "Leave the memories alone", and then you can reboot it however you want. It's just that, from the Champagne Room alone, there's clearly a lot of people who are still nostalgic about TWOStars, and if the format's destined to go, and it seems like it is, I think the "classic" format deserves the right goodbye.

EDIT: You could even make it the final Wrestlenova

All I'll say John is that I PM'd EVERY writer when the fed wa going to close before Saz took over and asked them for their ultimate dream match ever.... I got 3 replies. So, whilst the sentiment is nice I just can't see people agreeing to do it. Or they;ll agree to do it out of sentiment and then not actually do it which is what usually happens.

Fletch
26-01-2012, 09:29 PM
Maxxy's way sounds like the best of all worlds and I've seen it done, mostly in RP feds though.


Having been away from the entire forum for some nearly 2 years, what I came back to read, whether signed in or not was TWOStars. I caught a little of what was going on, but it seemed very flat, and without the creative threads it seemed without any sort of life to it. I've always enjoyed reading TWOStars at the very least often I'll think things over and become totally creative and want to come back without any real thought to what's going on in my life at the time and whatnot. Last return was testament to that, and in hindsight even then I took too much on.

But I'd hate to see the fed go completely, whether it had a new format or not, it's better to try and fail than to give up entirely.

If I were to throw my name in the hat, which I'm not, but my way forward would be:

-Head Booker and at least 2 almost equals in charge
-Fortnightly shows, each consisting of 3/4 'matches' at most
-Shows to be in traditional TWOStars format: Show Start, continue
-Matches for television to be cut to entrance, summary and finish. More of a recap than a full match
-Up to writer's discretion whether to do the above or write a full match
-PPV's to be restricted to 4 per year. Booking sent out in much advance, matches to be at least what a TV match would of been before.
-Introduction of a B-Show. One show per month for newcomers and trainee's to the fed. Full time veterans can volunteer before booking to guest in the show with the rookies.

Omega
26-01-2012, 09:48 PM
So voting is up for one week. No voting if you aren't also going to write. Fairs fair, you can't force your will on other people if you aren't also agreeing to do the same work.

Inno
27-01-2012, 07:51 AM
I gotta say, I lurk here A LOT and try and read as much as I can without actively getting involved... and I like the idea of skipping to the end of the match or any highlights. I find the PPVs hard going to read, and do find myself scrolling down to the results and then going back later (sometimes days or weeks later)

I do think the fed needs the matches to make it different to the thousands and thousands of RP feds out there.

And no, I still don't want to write a character in case people find out how crap I am at this sort of thing :D I don't mind still doing the aftershow round up shit, not that anyone pays attention to them ;)

Omega
27-01-2012, 08:10 AM
If I get voted in Inno I'll definitely ask you to be involved directly in some way. :)

Inno
27-01-2012, 09:13 AM
I'm not laying down for nobody