View Full Version : Racism? [Split from Big Brother 8 Thread]
From Digital Spy:
Emily kicked out for racial slur
Day 9, 10:31 BST
By Nick Levine, Entertainment Reporter
Warning: This article contains language and/or sexual references that younger readers are advised to avoid.
Emily has been removed from the Big Brother house after using a racially offensive word.
She was heard to say "Are you pushing it out you n**ger?" to Charley while dancing with her housemates in the living room at approximately 8.30pm last night.
Although she insisted that the comment had been intended as a joke, Big Brother deemed her comment unacceptable. The house rules state that any housemate who acts in a way that is seriously unacceptable will be evicted.
Emily was called to the Diary Room at approximately 3.30am to be removed from the house. The remaining housemates were informed of Big Brother's decision at 9.30am this morning.
As Emily was one of two housemates nominated for eviction, this week's eviction vote has been suspended.
Angela Jain, who heads Channel 4's Big Brother commissioning team, said: "In the wake of Celebrity Big Brother we must consider the potential offence to viewers regardless of Emily's intentions and her housemates' response.
"The word 'n**ger' is clearly racially offensive and there is no justification for its use. We have removed Emily from the house to once again make it clear to all housemates and the viewers at home that such behaviour won't be tolerated."
The incident will be aired as part of the Big Brother highlights show on Channel 4 at 10pm tonight. I dont think they had much choice really after all that publicity from Celeb BB. Poor Shabnam will have to stay another week now...or maybe she'll think of something to get kicked out for... :P
Kanenite
07-06-2007, 11:44 AM
Dont be so ridiculous....!!!
Nigger (I use it to highlight the situation)is a Racially derogative word...no matter what Charley's opinion, you simply cant condone people saying that....
Especially on a show that had such outrage over racial abuse last year....
I'm being ridiculous? So one word is said and it was accepted in a non-offensive way yet she gets booted from the show. So if a fat guy was in there and someone aggressively said oi fatty shut the f*** up do you think they would pick up on that in the way they did with this?
It's just such an over the top reaction and don't get me wrong i'm not racist at all, my best friend is indian :good222: But situations like this have been present in Big Brother since it started, whether sexual discrimination, racial insults or personal insults, yet because of one situation in Celeb BB they're now saying we won't tolerate it at all. If nothing would've come of Celeb BB's whole malake than they would let it continue undoubtedly.
I'm being ridiculous? So one word is said and it was accepted in a non-offensive way yet she gets booted from the show. So if a fat guy was in there and someone aggressively said oi fatty shut the f*** up do you think they would pick up on that in the way they did with this?
Yes you are being ridiculous....You cant condone a racially derogative word in anyway, where it was said offensively or not....Nigger is a derogatory word to black people whatever way you sugarcoat it...
Plus if you were to call an overweight person 'fatty' that isnt racist....offensive but not racist.
It's just such an over the top reaction and don't get me wrong i'm not racist at all, my best friend is indian :good222: But situations like this have been present in Big Brother since it started, whether sexual discrimination, racial insults or personal insults, yet because of one situation in Celeb BB they're now saying we won't tolerate it at all. If nothing would've come of Celeb BB's whole malake than they would let it continue undoubtedly.
Seeing this years Big Brother started with an unprecedented apology, due to the fact Big Brother was found guilty by Ofcom then I really cant see how it is an over the top reaction, when she has said a word that is globally accepted as a derogatary word for a race of people
What next..."Charley you dance like a Jungle Bunny" or "Shabnam you dance like a Jew in a Concentration camp" if these statements were found unoffensive by the two contestants is that ok?
I've heard The Honky Tonk Man has apparantly been arrested and charge with racism, and has been setenced to death by tutting of Daily Mail readers.
Alright she said a bad word but it wasn't in an abusive manner.
What if she saw a spider in the kitchen and said "get away you black b*stard" should we stone her? Its got be taken into context or else its PC overkill. They should have at least taken her into the diary room and said the kind of language can not be condoned, if its used again you shall be removed, as opposed to just making a knee jerk reaction.
But well my suspicion has been confirmed that Big Brother is just one big farce. She's been kicked out because it will cause media controversy, forget anything to do with racism, cause its got nothing to do with that.
BB so far has been dull, they needed some headlines. I expect to see her in South Africa next week apologising to Nelson Mandela in a special 2 hour Channel 4 documentary, right after Diana's death pictures.
Miss T
07-06-2007, 12:07 PM
Dont be so ridiculous....!!!
Nigger (I use it to highlight the situation)is a Racially derogative word...no matter what Charley's opinion, you simply cant condone people saying that....
Especially on a show that had such outrage over racial abuse last year....
Lots of people use the word n*gger and it is used in alot of music these days which is universally available! So I guess you can condone people saying it because its used all the time!! I personally dont think its can only be used in a racist context, its a cultural reference now aswell.
The Doctor
07-06-2007, 12:09 PM
Just to stir some sexism into the mix along with all the 'racism', I am gutted by this because, as Ziggy quite rightly pointed out, Emily had the best bum in the house (check out her profile pics on the official Channel 4 site if you need reminding).
My conspiracy theory style input on this: yes BB kicked the poor girl out to avoide a Shilpa-esque bout of controversy, but I'm sure that they already knew she was going on Friday anyway based on the votes cast so far. If she wasn't already halfway out the door I think they might not have actually instantly ejected her from the house and taken some other disciplinary measure. Given that I believe she was most likely going to go tomorrow anyway, this way BB gets to look ultra vigilant on the race issue but not actually disrupt their plans all that much.
The Doctor
07-06-2007, 12:12 PM
Lots of people use the word n*gger and it is used in alot of music these days which is universally available! So I guess you can condone people saying it because its used all the time!! I personally dont think its can only be used in a racist context, its a cultural reference now aswell.
Couldn't agree more. This link may offer some insight on the matter: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nigger
Kanenite
07-06-2007, 12:13 PM
Yes you are being ridiculous....You cant condone a racially derogative word in anyway, where it was said offensively or not....Nigger is a derogatory word to black people whatever way you sugarcoat it...
Plus if you were to call an overweight person 'fatty' that isnt racist....offensive but not racist.
Seeing this years Big Brother started with an unprecedented apology, due to the fact Big Brother was found guilty by Ofcom then I really cant see how it is an over the top reaction, when she has said a word that is globally accepted as a derogatary word for a race of people
What next..."Charley you dance like a Jungle Bunny" or "Shabnam you dance like a Jew in a Concentration camp" if these statements were found unoffensive by the two contestants is that ok?
Whether you like it or not, Nigger is a word that is used in todays society from day to day as a joke, anyone who says it in an offensive way then i'm against it but it was a joke and was taken as a joke, if Charly found it offensive then i've got no problem with them punishing Emily but with it being accepted as a joke then what's the problem? Oh and talk about misunderstanding, of course fatty isn't racist, it's an offensive term though just like Nigger is an offensive term. It's on the same scale that you're insulting a person yet Big Brother have refused to pick up on past situations which have involved this.
Lots of people use the word n*gger and it is used in alot of music these days which is universally available! So I guess you can condone people saying it because its used all the time!! I personally dont think its can only be used in a racist context, its a cultural reference now aswell
Yes it is used in music, but why is it, either bleeped or muted on National radio or television if it was so culturally acceptable?
Whether you like it or not, Nigger is a word that is used in todays society from day to day as a joke,
Racist jokes!!....If you were caught by a Police Officer by Law you would be arrested for calling someone a Nigger....
Anime_Otaku
07-06-2007, 12:25 PM
I agree with MG she had to go after using a racist slur. Miss T's point is null because when you hear it used in music in particular or certain genres of movies its used by or between black people. It's like I feel about being refered to as a cripple, if it's from a disabled person or a good friend I'd probably be ok with it but if someone I didn't know used it I'd be really angry about it.
From Digital Spy:
In full: Transcript of Emily's racial slur
Thursday, June 7 2007, 10:16 BST
By James Welsh, International Editor
Warning: This article contains language and/or sexual references that younger readers are advised to avoid.
DS:BB presents, in full, the transcript of the conversation between Emily, Charley and Nicky in which Emily uttered a racial slur leading to her eviction from the house.
The transcript, which is provisional and provided by Channel 4, now follows.
Emily: (referring to Charley dancing/pushing her hips forward) You pushing it out you nigger.
Nicky: (shocked laughter) Em, I can't believe you said that.
Charley: You are in trouble.
Emily: Don't make a big thing out of it then. I was joking.
Charley: I know you were... but that's some serious ****, sorry.
Emily: Why?
Charley: Oh my god. I'm not even saying it.
Nicky: Just don't talk about it anymore.
Emily: I was joking
Charley: Do you know how many viewers would watch that?
Nicky: Okay, don't make a big deal out of it.
Charley: Fancy you saying that. I can't believe you said that.
Emily: Somebody has already used that word in this house.
Charley: No way. (Pause) Yeah, me. I'm a nigger.
Nicky laughs.
Charley: I am one. Fancy you saying it. I know maybe you see it in a rap song. Maybe you and your friends sit there saying it.
Emily: I'm friendly with plenty of black people.
Nicky: And you call them niggers?
Emily: Yeah and they call me niggers. They call me wiggers as well.
Nicky: I'm quite shocked.
Charley: I'm ****ing in shock.
Emily: It's not a big deal though is it?
Charley: Not for us it ain't. **** me.Both Nicky and Charley were shocked she said it...so it cant be THAT socially acceptable? I agree she meant no harm by it...but C4 never really had a choice, especially with that reaction from Nicky and Charley.
Roll on 10pm tonight... :)
Joey Asbo
07-06-2007, 01:52 PM
Will they be allowed to show it after the whole Celebrity BB hoo har?
Jaycey Baby
07-06-2007, 01:54 PM
I fear this kind of enforced sterility is going to ruin future series of Big Brother. The housemates will be afraid to breathe soon enough in case something slips out that might be misconstrued. This sort of thing's all over TV (particularly MTV), why do they continue to make BB the pariah? If there's a Shetty-style furore over this I hope Emily has the strength where Jade Goody didn't to stand up and say no, I won't apologise, and if you think this is worth any kind of outcry, you're a complete and utter idiot.
I fear this kind of enforced sterility is going to ruin future series of Big Brother. The housemates will be afraid to breathe soon enough in case something slips out that might be misconstrued. This sort of thing's all over TV (particularly MTV), why do they continue to make BB the pariah? If there's a Shetty-style furore over this I hope Emily has the strength where Jade Goody didn't to stand up and say no, I won't apologise, and if you think this is worth any kind of outcry, you're a complete and utter idiot.
I think you will be hard pressed to find any other television channel using the word 'Nigger' in their broadcasting....
Nemesis Enforcer
07-06-2007, 02:12 PM
I personally don't find anything offensive and my personal view is if people stopped getting offended by simple words then the world would be alot better place, I have been alled alsorts in my life and I just let it roll off my back and ignored it, or even laughed about it on some occasions
I am white and have I said Nigger before - yes, have I said other 'racist' terms before - yes, do I feel bad about it - no I don't
If people stopped getting offended at everything then the words and those who use them in 'racist' ways lose their power too, a word isn't 'bad' until we make it so in our reaction
I personally don't find anything offensive and my personal view is if people stopped getting offended by simple words then the world would be alot better place, I have been alled alsorts in my life and I just let it roll off my back and ignored it, or even laughed about it on some occasions
I am white and have I said Nigger before - yes, have I said other 'racist' terms before - yes, do I feel bad about it - no I don't
If people stopped getting offended at everything then the words and those who use them in 'racist' ways lose their power too, a word isn't 'bad' until we make it so in our reaction
So its ok to keep Police Officers seperate when in prison to avoid them from abuse, but when it comes to personal racist abuse that is perfectly fine!?
Because Nigger IS a derogatry and demeaning term AND classed as racial abuse...that is the Law!!
It may not have been used offensively in this case....but that does not disguise the facts....
To you it maybe a 'simple' word, but to a race of people who throughout history have been persecuted and abused which such terms as Nigger or Negro its has much larger connotations...
Nemesis Enforcer
07-06-2007, 02:35 PM
To me it is just a word, same as every other word is just a word, its people that put a connitation to it, if no-one was offended by the word Nigger or Paki or anything else thats racist then the people using the words would lose everything they stand for and the word would become nothing in meaning
A word doesn't mean anything until people give it a meaning, Nigger is just a word, its people's reaction to it that makes it a racist word and causes rifts
The old rhyme 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me' is how I think people should live, there is no point getting offended by words becuase if you do then it just perpitrates the use of it in future
Slim Jim
07-06-2007, 02:46 PM
I guess it's fine to write the word out repeatedly, but not say it out loud.
To me it is just a word, same as every other word is just a word, its people that put a connitation to it, if no-one was offended by the word Nigger or Paki or anything else thats racist then the people using the words would lose everything they stand for and the word would become nothing in meaning
The old rhyme 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me' is how I think people should live, there is no point getting offended by words becuase if you do then it just perpitrates the use of it in future
Im sorry but thats rubbish!
By dismissing it your dismissing years of persecution towards a race.
There is association with the words Nigger or Negro to the Slave trade etc, and its not people putting a connotation to it, its years of personal and physical abuse, people dying and fighting for equality like Malcom X and Martin Luther King that cant suddenly be amended over night, to dismiss that as 'sticks and stones' is incredibly naive
Such words as Nigger, Negro, Paki, Yid all are derogatary words for races and religions, who throughout history have been persecuted. What else should we class as 'Sticks and Stones' the Holocaust?
A word doesn't mean anything until people give it a meaning, Nigger is just a word, its people's reaction to it that makes it a racist word and causes rifts
Has it ever occured to you why people react to a word such as Nigger?
Jaycey Baby
07-06-2007, 02:52 PM
I think you will be hard pressed to find any other television channel using the word 'Nigger' in their broadcasting....
Well, maybe. But casual racism is pretty rife. I don't think the word has the same connotations to a generation brought up on rap music as it did to slave master whip-crackers.
A word doesn't mean anything until people give it a meaning, Nigger is just a word, its people's reaction to it that makes it a racist word and causes rifts.
So... it's the black peoples' fault that the N word is so offensive...?
Well, maybe. But casual racism is pretty rife. I don't think the word has the same connotations to a generation brought up on rap music as it did to slave master whip-crackers.
But to call a Black Person a 'Nigger' is still a highly racist and provocative act and would be acted upon by the Law......
Yes Rap music has muddied that waters, but the fact of the matter is, if you were reported to the police, you would be charged...
I was chatting momentarily ago with a collegue of mine who happens to be Black in regards to this thread, and he was flabergasted that people are trying to justify the use of the word.
Because Nigger IS a derogatry and demeaning term AND classed as racial abuse...that is the Law!!
It may not have been used offensively in this case....but that does not disguise the facts....If it's used jokingly, whether the word is acceptable or not, it shouldn't be taken seriously. It's really depends on the context of it. If I said to you "You're a dick", would you react the same if I said it in response to "I hate like you" and something like "Bolton will get relegated next year"? Of course not.
It really does depend on the context. What if they were messing about, say, acting like rappers? One of them says nigger, so is it unnacceptable once again?
Think about comedy - It's based on controversy a lot of the time. Is it wrong for someone to attack Jew's in a totally joking way? Making fun of the Holocaust in a serious conversation is obviously wrong, but if it's the punchline in a stand-up comedy act, would you react the same way? On another forum, there was a bunch of jokes about white people. I'm wite, but I still laughed, because it's not intended to insult me.
I agree that the word is wrong, but it all depends on how and why it was said.
I just think its obvious that the only reason they booted her out was to make some headlines.
If it's used jokingly, whether the word is acceptable or not, it shouldn't be taken seriously. It's really depends on the context of it. If I said to you "You're a dick", would you react the same if I said it in response to "I hate like you" and something like "Bolton will get relegated next year"? Of course not.
It really does depend on the context. What if they were messing about, say, acting like rappers? One of them says nigger, so is it unnacceptable once again?
Think about comedy - It's based on controversy a lot of the time. Is it wrong for someone to attack Jew's in a totally joking way? Making fun of the Holocaust in a serious conversation is obviously wrong, but if it's the punchline in a stand-up comedy act, would you react the same way? On another forum, there was a bunch of jokes about white people. I'm wite, but I still laughed, because it's not intended to insult me.
I agree that the word is wrong, but it all depends on how and why it was said.
I agree to some extent
This is where, as mentioned before some forms of popular culture have muddies the waters. I am not blaming rap music for this (It would be like blaming Columbine on computer games) and I will agree that it is obvious she didnt say it in an offensive manner, but the word still has greater connotations for a race of people who find it highly offensive, this highlighted by the transcript as posted by Kam, she wasnt being offensive but incredibly naive to history, as shown by her trying to blow it off...
Where the word has become more common place in popular culture and thus society, the power of the word cannot be diminished or dismissed when it is engrained in years of persecution...
Nemesis Enforcer
07-06-2007, 03:19 PM
So... it's the black peoples' fault that the N word is so offensive...?
In a small way yes, if no-one had ever taken offence then the word would have been rendered powerless, of course if white people (who are most to blame) had never thought up the word then the same applys
I watched Chris Rock not long ago and he spent fully 10 mins saying how and I quote "I love black people... but I hate niggers" and going on about the differences and everyone in the audiance, both black and white, aisan and others were all laughing their asses off about it, now why is it ok for a black man to say somehting like that but not white people?
If the word is offensive then it shouldn't matter what colour your skin is anyone saying it should cause offence but thats not the case, it fine for a black man to say nigger but not a white man which is hypocritical since its the same word just different colour people which the whole racism argument is about peopls colour
There are nuances of expression that can affect the way a potentially offensive word or phrase can be taken but take a look at the fullness of history and see a word that white people need to be careful about using due to its connotations. You can then apply some common sense to situations where you might offend someone rather than whine that "black people can use it, why not us?" after you've p***** someone off.
Chris Rock seems hardly the person to base your views on. He re-defined the N word as a term to describe just some sectors of the black race. Chris Rock re-defining a word to comedic effect doesn't constitute a change in use and a new entry in the OED.
In a small way yes, if no-one had ever taken offence then the word would have been rendered powerless, of course if white people (who are most to blame) had never thought up the word then the same applys
Do you actually realise what your saying?!
Do you have any idea on the slave trade or the persecution of black people in America for example?
It wasnt abuse of one person it was the persecution of a whole race, the branding of a negro as worthless, its not about the word Nigger or Negro its what it represents
I watched Chris Rock not long ago and he spent fully 10 mins saying how and I quote "I love black people... but I hate niggers" and going on about the differences and everyone in the audiance, both black and white, aisan and others were all laughing their asses off about it, now why is it ok for a black man to say somehting like that but not white people?
Your really missing the point.....
I too have that same DVD and he is discussing the use in terms of social status, people are laughing not because of the use of the word Nigger, but because Rock is discussing social and class status
Ravenmark
07-06-2007, 03:39 PM
I'm glad the white bitch has gone. :greets4: :P
Nemesis Enforcer
07-06-2007, 03:53 PM
Do you actually realise what your saying?!
Do you have any idea on the slave trade or the persecution of black people in America for example?
It wasnt abuse of one person it was the persecution of a whole race, the branding of a negro as worthless, its not about the word Nigger or Negro its what it represents
Yes but its about time the world moved on, how long is it that people are going to hold the same views, the world has changed its time people changed, the more you let a word have power the more people will use it for their own agenda, if people laughed off the word then the whole meaning of it changes, Emily saying nigger in BB was one person saying a word to another person, the word has a history attached to it yes, but at the end of the day everything has a history and you learn from it, the word nigger is never going away so IMO change its meaning, take the power away from it, look at what Germany did to the Nazi's, they made them a joke and they lost their power, the same thing needs to be done to the word nigger and other racist terms because like it or not the words are not going away
Your really missing the point.....
I too have that same DVD and he is discussing the use in terms of social status, people are laughing not because of the use of the word Nigger, but because Rock is discussing social and class status
Its still the same word though, but becaise its meaning has changed its no longer offensive, thats my whole point, if people stop being offended by the word because its meaning is changed it loses its power over people
Yes but its about time the world moved on, how long is it that people are going to hold the same views, the world has changed its time people changed, the more you let a word have power the more people will use it for their own agenda, if people laughed off the word then the whole meaning of it changes, Emily saying nigger in BB was one person saying a word to another person, the word has a history attached to it yes, but at the end of the day everything has a history and you learn from it, the word nigger is never going away so IMO change its meaning, take the power away from it, look at what Germany did to the Nazi's, they made them a joke and they lost their power, the same thing needs to be done to the word nigger and other racist terms because like it or not the words are not going away
Erm - any reference to Nazism in Germany will get you arrested and charged.
Its still the same word though, but becaise its meaning has changed its no longer offensive, thats my whole point, if people stop being offended by the word because its meaning is changed it loses its power over people
That would only be true if it was actually true. Which it ain't. The majority of people still believe that the N word is offensive, therefore it's offensive. I'm stating truisms but it seems the only way to make the point.
To be honest, if a black person said somthing racist to a white person nothing would happen. People would be too scared to do anything as the black person may claim it to be racist.
Sad, but true. Just the way it goes.
To be honest, if a black person said somthing racist to a white person nothing would happen. People would be too scared to do anything as the black person may claim it to be racist.
Sad, but true. Just the way it goes.
So you're stereotyping all non-black folks as scared of black people's reactions to any kind of accusation and stereotyping black folks as likely to claim racism without cause. Covering all your bases pretty well there.
Ravenmark
07-06-2007, 04:07 PM
Spaceman came down to answer some things,
The world gathered round from paupers to kings,
I’ll answer your questions, I’ll answer them true,
I’ll show the way you know what to do,
Who is wrong and who is right?
Yellow, brown or black or white?
The spaceman he answered "You’ll no longer mind;
I’ve opened your eyes, you’re now colour blind."
:xyx
So you're stereotyping all non-black folks as scared of black people's reactions to any kind of accusation and stereotyping black folks as likely to claim racism without cause. Covering all your bases pretty well there.
Well it happens. Emily said Nigga, BB are scared if the reaction from the black people and kicked her out of the house.
Yes but its about time the world moved on, how long is it that people are going to hold the same views, the world has changed its time people changed, the more you let a word have power the more people will use it for their own agenda, if people laughed off the word then the whole meaning of it changes, Emily saying nigger in BB was one person saying a word to another person, the word has a history attached to it yes, but at the end of the day everything has a history and you learn from it, the word nigger is never going away so IMO change its meaning, take the power away from it, look at what Germany did to the Nazi's, they made them a joke and they lost their power, the same thing needs to be done to the word nigger and other racist terms because like it or not the words are not going away
I really want to argue with you, but I cant be bothered, I really cant.
Please, please please, read about the slave trade, read about the persecution of black people in America in the 50's and 60's, read about Martin Luther King, Malcom X, Nelson Mandela, Cassius Clay, Rodney King and the LA riots in the 80's
Then realise that in parts of America and the world today these same persecutions are still taking place, People are still being persecuted because of the colour of their skin, where there referred to simply as a Nigger or a Negro because they are a lesser race.
That across Europe the rise of the far right as highlighted by the BNP is a worrying sign that we didnt learn from Nazi Germany, and that Presidents of countries like Iran can dismiss the Holocaust ever happening
It simply isnt a case of just moving on.....To forget the past ever happened, or to brush it off as history, is forgetting what people fought for to gain equality in this world
To simply forget and move on is giving power to Le Pen, Mugabe and Ahmadinejad to continue to promote their racist idealism
Well it happens. Emily said Nigga, BB are scared if the reaction from the black people and kicked her out of the house.
They've already been given a rollocking by the TV watchdog people so they've got to be on their toes. I'm a bit hazy on the whole Celeb BB incident and what was said but as far as I remember, there were no racial slurs uttered but the intent of Jade & Co. was certainly malicious.
In this case, Emily wasn't being malicious but she was definitely ignorant, naive and really lived up to her image as a spoilt little rich girl with delusions about her place in the world. Plus, by overtly uttering the N word she left Channel 4 with no choice whatsoever.
Ok then should she have been kicked out?
Wouldnt a major warning in the diary room have been enough?
After all it wasn't said in a threatening manner.
Just seen this on the news, I can't help but laugh at how ridiculous it is to be honest. I never liked Emily but FFS if Charly didn't find it offensive then is it really bad?
Ermmm yes: I found it offensive, and I'm glad she got kicked. stupid cow :xyx
They've already been given a rollocking by the TV watchdog people so they've got to be on their toes. I'm a bit hazy on the whole Celeb BB incident and what was said but as far as I remember, there were no racial slurs uttered but the intent of Jade & Co. was certainly malicious. In this case, Emily wasn't being malicious but she was definitely ignorant, naive and really lived up to her image as a spoilt little rich girl with delusions about her place in the world.
I didn't even see Celeb BB, yet by what I've been told no one was racist, but as you said the intent was racist. I honestly don't believe that Emilyshouldn'y have been kicked out as it wasn't ment ot be threatening, it's just the fact that BB are scared of another outroar from the ethnic group that the word can cause offence to. But you've really got to see it this way if Charley called one of the white contestants a honkey, vanilla face ect. nothing would've have been mentioned even though the term can be seen as racist.
Ravenmark
07-06-2007, 04:19 PM
Had to laugh when I read 'vanilla face' :lol
Funniest white put down EVER!
Nemesis Enforcer
07-06-2007, 04:19 PM
Simple fact for me is this, the word aint going away so you either learn to accept it how it is or you actually change the meaning of it and make it part of everyday life and thus take the power of those who use it to disparage people away
Personally I would make it a powerless word, you don't get anywhere but in more trouble when you forever give a word like Nigger power over people, a start has been made, black people are integrating it into normal life and the next step is for people to stop being afraid of the word and its connotations and move on, every new generation is becomming less sensative about words that for years have been highly offesive and caused rifts in all society and that imo is a good thing
Had to laugh when I read 'vanilla face' :lol
Funniest white put down EVER!
Yeah, it is. But there could be some people that could find it offensive (I personally don't, I find it hilarious, but that's besides the point).
To me it is just a word, same as every other word is just a word, its people that put a connitation to it, if no-one was offended by the word Nigger or Paki or anything else thats racist then the people using the words would lose everything they stand for and the word would become nothing in meaning
A word doesn't mean anything until people give it a meaning, Nigger is just a word, its people's reaction to it that makes it a racist word and causes rifts
The old rhyme 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me' is how I think people should live, there is no point getting offended by words becuase if you do then it just perpitrates the use of it in future
I was racially abused in the high street and called "nigger" repeatedly by a racist scumbag, and to this day its one of the lowest points of my life, I cant even begin to describe how hurt I felt. For anyone who thinks "nigger" is just another word, I would advise you to think again, because that is one of the most hurtful words I know. I dont even like being called it by other black people.
Simple fact for me is this, the word aint going away so you either learn to accept it how it is or you actually change the meaning of it and make it part of everyday life and thus take the power of those who use it to disparage people away
How about people just have common sense, and realise that it is a derogotary and offensive word that is a form of abuse and not use it?
I have always been taught that it is a form of racist abuse by using it....I am not racist so thus have never used it....
Simple
Ravenmark
07-06-2007, 04:24 PM
I think either everyone is 'allowed' to use it, or nobody should use it.
It can't be ok for a black person to use it and not a white person too. It's not one rule for one and one rule for another.
I can see why it's offensive to black people and as such I wouldn't personally use it.
Nemesis Enforcer
07-06-2007, 04:34 PM
How about people just have common sense, and realise that it is a derogotary and offensive word that is a form of abuse and not use it?
I have always been taught that it is a form of racist abuse by using it....I am not racist so thus have never used it....
Simple
That is all well and good but people have the freedom to say whatever they want to, just because you find it racist doesn't mean I or someone else does and so who decides in this day and age who can say what and to who?
I don't go around the streets saying nigger to people, but I am not afraid of the word getting used either or typing it or saying it, it is, like it or not becomming a common word and that is not going to change while people have freedom to say what they want, now the contex they say it in is a different thing
Dave7g
07-06-2007, 04:34 PM
I havent seen it yet, but it seems they were dancing around singing songs, and there was absolutley no offense meant at all. So does this mean that C4 will be banning all rap/hip hop now?
I hope so.
That is all well and good but people have the freedom to say whatever they want to, just because you find it racist doesn't mean I or someone else does and so who decides in this day and age who can say what and to who?
I don't go around the streets saying nigger to people, but I am not afraid of the word getting used either or typing it or saying it, it is, like it or not becomming a common word and that is not going to change while people have freedom to say what they want, now the contex they say it in is a different thing
Hypothetically speaking, if I were to call you a tw** day in and day out you wouldn't be offended?
The word was used, that was offensive enough for me. And then to make out like it was "just a joke", and that she has lots of black friends who she uses the word around.
Who the hell does she think she is?
I've heard Chris Moyles has also been fired for just being offensive to look at.
Ooo look here comes a police officer, what's his name? Oh its none other than PC Overkill.
That is all well and good but people have the freedom to say whatever they want to, just because you find it racist doesn't mean I or someone else does and so who decides in this day and age who can say what and to who?
I don't go around the streets saying nigger to people, but I am not afraid of the word getting used either or typing it or saying it, it is, like it or not becomming a common word and that is not going to change while people have freedom to say what they want, now the contex they say it in is a different thing
But you dont have the freedom to say whatever you like....
If there was sufficient evidence you would be charged for racial abuse.....
Plus, you have to be pretty daft or naive if you dont know that such terms as Nigger or Negro is highly offensive...
I refer back to the original transcript...Where Charley wasnt offended by it, she was still shocked that Emily found it socially acceptable to use
Thing is though, she never said it aggressively, thus does it deserve all this hysteria? She wasn't being cruel or demeaning, just ignorant and naive.
Nothing like Jade, completely different scenario.
Nemesis Enforcer
07-06-2007, 04:40 PM
Hypothetically speaking, if I were to call you a tw** day in and day out you wouldn't be offended?
Nope I wouldn't, if you'd care to do it to test go right ahead too, for nearly 3 years at school I was called tw*t, f*cker, c*nt and all sorts more but I just let it side right off and got on with my life becuase I didn't care what others thought of me that was their problem not mine
Nope I wouldn't, if you'd care to do it to test go right ahead too, for nearly 3 years at school I was called tw*t, f*cker, c*nt and all sorts more but I just let it side right off and got on with my life becuase I didn't care what others thought of me that was their problem not mine
Psychology 101 time: Just because you were too timid to stand up for yourself back then means that now you're all grown up you think everyone should have to put up with being demeaned?
The Man Beast
07-06-2007, 04:43 PM
Just saw this now and my point on it is that most of the people saying its ok and its just a word are white and will never know how hurtful it is being called the n word, I am white and have a few black friends and they on occasion's call each other the n word in a non hurtful manner, But still if I was black and was called the n word in a non malicious way it would still hurt imo. But I dont fully know and will never know what it feels like.
If Richardson's cousin uses the word honky, does she get thrown out?
Just saw this now and my point on it is that most of the people saying its ok and its just a word are white and will never know how hurtful it is being called the n word, I am white and have a few black friends and they on occasion's call each other the n word in a non hurtful manner, But still if I was black and was called the n word in a non malicious way it would still hurt imo. But I dont fully know and will never know what it feels like.
Very true....
I have found G2G's insight in this thread very benefical and interesting...
To be honest, this just shows how PC todays world is.
To be honest, this just shows how PC todays world is.
Im sorry but I find that a very naive view....as I said to NE
Please, please please, read about the slave trade, read about the persecution of black people in America in the 50's and 60's, read about Martin Luther King, Malcom X, Nelson Mandela, Cassius Clay, Rodney King and the LA riots in the 80's
Then realise that in parts of America and the world today these same persecutions are still taking place, People are still being persecuted because of the colour of their skin, where there referred to simply as a Nigger or a Negro because they are a lesser race.
That across Europe the rise of the far right as highlighted by the BNP is a worrying sign that we didnt learn from Nazi Germany, and that Presidents of countries like Iran can dismiss the Holocaust ever happening
It simply isnt a case of just moving on.....To forget the past ever happened, or to brush it off as history, is forgetting what people fought for to gain equality in this world
To simply forget and move on is giving power to Le Pen, Mugabe and Ahmadinejad to continue to promote their racist idealism
Thats not naive at all.
Yes its a derogatory word but it wasn't said in an offensive or deragatory manner. Thus its not anywhere near as bad as made out.
Dave7g
07-06-2007, 04:56 PM
Even Charley didn't think it was offensive, so how is it offensive? It's a word you hear all the time everywhere, mostly in rap music. And nobody minds the rappers using it in music, so why now is it the most offensive thing ever, oh yeah.
It's because a little blonde white girl used it.
Then realise that in parts of America and the world today these same persecutions are still taking place, People are still being persecuted because of the colour of their skin, where there referred to simply as a Nigger or a Negro because they are a lesser race.
That sort of racism is rife here in Newcastle as well. I've been called "nigger, black c*nt, gollywo* and other racist words on a number of occasions now and get some awkward stares so many times here by people (including young kids) that I just try my hardest to shake it off and get on with things. I realise that I'm a minority race living in a predominantly white city, but it's still extremely hurtful.
I dont mean to sound rude, but when people say "oh its just another word" or sticks and stones, they honestly dont have a f*ckin clue.
Thats not naive at all.
Yes its a derogatory word but it wasn't said in an offensive or deragatory manner. Thus its not anywhere near as bad as made out.
But this isnt about Big Brother being politically correct....
Its about someone saying a racially derogative word, which could cause offence and taking action, in light of Celebrity Big Brother, they had no real choice....
Even Charley didn't think it was offensive, so how is it offensive? It's a word you hear all the time everywhere, mostly in rap music. And nobody minds the rappers using it in music, so why now is it the most offensive thing ever, oh yeah.
It's because a little blonde white girl used it.
Yes but she was shocked that Emily found it acceptable to use.....
As for how offensive is it
I dont mean to sound rude, but when people say "oh its just another word" or sticks and stones, they honestly dont have a f*ckin clue.
Speaks volumes....
Let me just clarify. Are there people arguing that the word Nigger, in and of itself, is not an offensive word?
Dave7g
07-06-2007, 05:03 PM
It seems it's offensive when people feel like it, other times it's fine.
The word is only as offensive as you make it out to be. But then again, I wouldn't know because "I'm not black". Yet, any other word isn't offensive because it doesn't have a history...
I don't mean to sound harsh, if that does. That's just the way I see it, just to clarify I'm not racist but I have used the word before but not trying to be offensive.
The word is only as offensive as you make it out to be. But then again, I wouldn't know because "I'm not black". Yet, any other word isn't offensive because it doesn't have a history...
I don't mean to sound harsh, if that does. That's just the way I see it, just to clarify I'm not racist but I have used the word before but not trying to be offensive.
About about Wop for Italians or Yid for Jews...or Spick for Hispanics or Hun for Germans....all offensive and all have history?
About about Wop for Italians or Yid for Jews...or Spick for Hispanics or Hun for Germans....all offensive and all have history?
I highly doubt BB would've been as severe as they where with Emily if she said one of those words.
Say if I was on there getting verbally abused by a black guy in tiny doses by making fun of my height, weight and how I look and eventually I'd snap and call him a racist name, it would 'most likely' be me that gets in the most trouble, due to the PCness of today.
I'm not on Emily's side, she was up her own arse and she really shouldn't have said nigger but being kicked out was too harsh.
Say if I was on there getting verbally abused by a black guy in tiny doses by making fun of my height, weight and how I look and eventually I'd snap and call him a racist name, it would 'most likely' be me that gets in the most trouble, due to the PCness of today.
No doubt they would be looked upon for bullying, but yes would be in trouble, not because of a politically correct society, because you have been racist!
Or are we now saying that punishing people for being racially abusive is being overly politically correct?
Or are we now saying that punishing people for being racially abusive is being overly politically correct?
The whole Emily thing is due to politically correctness. Charley didn't find it offensive, so surely it should've just been a big warning or a punishment like they gave out when Shabnam mentioned to Ziggy about mentioning nominations.
Miss T
07-06-2007, 05:39 PM
Sticks and stones is a load of bullsh*t!! If something offends someone, it offends them, different people are sensitive to different things and you cant tell them not be! For instance good2go doesnt like the term and it makes him feel uneasy to even hear it so if he was my friend I wouldnt use that word in front of him. Emily said nigga in front of charley and nicky (who is indian, not black) and they didnt find it offensive, surely that is the main point?! Yes you can say it offends the viewing public with just the word being mentioned but I hear it all the time in the media (even if it is after ten or in a movie or in un-edited music I download) and people dont seem to be so bothered then?! But if Emily had called Carole fat Or if Emily had called Tracy ugly then she wouldnt of been chucked out, and ugly or fat people might be offended but would just have to deal with it.
The whole Emily thing is due to politically correctness. Charley didn't find it offensive, so surely it should've just been a big warning or a punishment like they gave out when Shabnam mentioned to Ziggy about mentioning nominations.
But there is a slight difference in discussing nominations and using a globally accepted derogatary word....
Charley didnt find it offensive in context, but she was shocked that Emily found it socially acceptable to use such a word....
The way I see it is, Emily's a grown woman who has her full senses. She should know by now that the word is offensive and derogatory. If she really thinks though that its socially acceptable to make comments like that and then laugh it off like its one big joke, then she seriously must have a screw loose.
Sticks and stones is a load of bullsh*t!! If something offends someone, it offends them, different people are sensitive to different things and you cant tell them not be! For instance good2go doesnt like the term and it makes him feel uneasy to even hear it so if he was my friend I wouldnt use that word in front of him. Emily said nigga in front of charley and nicky (who is indian, not black) and they didnt find it offensive, surely that is the main point?! Yes you can say it offends the viewing public with just the word being mentioned but I hear it all the time in the media (even if it is after ten or in a movie or in un-edited music I download) and people dont seem to be so bothered then?! But if Emily had called Carole fat Or if Emily had called Tracy ugly then she wouldnt of been chucked out, and ugly or fat people might be offended but would just have to deal with it.
This was kinda what I was getting at, but it's the PCness of the world that annoys me. We are ment to be a country with the freedom of speech but then again, what is the freedom to speak? It seems we can't say anything without anyone getting offended. And that's what grinds my gears about this whole topic.
This was kinda what I was getting at, but it's the PCness of the world that annoys me. We are ment to be a country with the freedom of speech but then again, what is the freedom to speak? It seems we can't say anything without anyone getting offended. And that's what grinds my gears about this whole topic.
But the problem is with regards to the word in question and freedom of speech, as I have mentioned before, if there was sufficient evidence of you using said word in an abusive manner, you could be charged by Law with racial abuse...
Nemesis Enforcer
07-06-2007, 05:59 PM
Psychology 101 time: Just because you were too timid to stand up for yourself back then means that now you're all grown up you think everyone should have to put up with being demeaned?I wasn't too timid though, when it got physical I defended myself but I simply don't let things bother or offend me and never have and I find life is much simpler that way
Others may and do get offended by words, personaly I don't and never have, such as a few months ago when I was in HMV and sang along to part of a rap song they had playing, a black teenager walked past me stopped and said "you ****ing wigger" now could have got all offended by that, but rarther I just ignored it and he turned and walked away and I went on with my life
The word was used, that was offensive enough for me. And then to make out like it was "just a joke", and that she has lots of black friends who she uses the word around.
Who the hell does she think she is?IMO, the fact that she had to say that it was "just a joke" shows that she had to justify her use of the word. If there was nothing wrong with her saying it, context or not, then why did she have to say she was joking? You only say you were joking if what you said offended someone or they didn't think of it as a joke.
I've heard Chris Moyles has also been fired for just being offensive to look at.But he's on the radio, so you don't have to look at him.
Even Charley didn't think it was offensive,She may not have been offended, but she was certainly uncomfortable about it, otherwise she wouldn't have reacted the way she did.
The whole Emily thing is due to politically correctness.It's actually due to BB's need to avoid another race issue like last time.
Anyway back to the goings on in the actual house,
I've had a brush with racism once at school, I was rapping along to Tupac and one verse contained the word in question. Was that worth a black mark on my permanent record? I personally don't think so, and it aggravated me further that the girl who saw to it that I was reprimanded later openly joked about the term, using it herself AND being unflustered by other white students saying it.
It's those sorts of double standards that need to be sorted out, so there's a bit more of a standard ruling, and less of the gray.
Wolverine
07-06-2007, 08:39 PM
This reminds me of a certain South Park episode.
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/south%2Bpark/video/x1el7z_south-park-1101-apologiesvo-12
The Beltster
07-06-2007, 08:54 PM
Plus if you were to call an overweight person 'fatty' that isnt racist....offensive but not racist. Rubbish. What is a racist word exactly? I'll tell you: its a word specifically meant to be offensive to a certain race, just as "fatty" is specifically meant to be offensive to a certain body type. No different whatsoever when its stripped down to the bare bones of it. They are both offensive to seperate types of person.
And WHY cant you justify it? If you hate black people thats your choice, so if you want to call them niggers, thats upto you. It doesnt NEED to be justified because its a personal opinion and choice.
If I hate dogs and call one a mutt, I'm not branded a Dogist and lambasted for it. But if I decide for whatever reason that I dont like a Chinese person and brand them a Chink, I'm a racist asshole who is closeminded etc? What a load of crap.
I have a large group of mates, and barring any Chinese people I'm pretty sure it includes pretty much all ethnic groups including blacks, whites, indians and so on, and I like them all because when I see them, I dont see them as black, white, Indian or whatever, however for those who DO and choose for whatever reason not to like them, whats the big deal? Thats up to them and they shouldnt be slated because they dont like a certain race of people. Its not different than choosing not to like dogs, cats, cars or f'n ice cream when you get right down to the literal sense of it. Who cares?
So she called somebody a nigger? Ohhhh no, and? I'm sure it might mean something if black people dont call each other it all the f'n time anyways! If a black person called me a cracker, I wouldnt care, no different than calling me a prat, dickhead or anything else.
If you pick on a person for their weight, spots, hair colour or colour of their skin its a personal attack, none are any worse than the others IMO and none of them should be taken as seriously as this when they are said in an apparent joking manner on a shitty worthless TV show like Big f'n Brother!
I have a large group of mates, and barring any Chinese people I'm pretty sure it includes pretty much all ethnic groups including blacks, whites, indians and so on,Do you hang out with The Village People?
Rubbish. What is a racist word exactly? I'll tell you: its a word specifically meant to be offensive to a certain race, just as "fatty" is specifically meant to be offensive to a certain body type. No different whatsoever when its stripped down to the bare bones of it. They are both offensive to seperate types of person.
As in the quote you highlighted, In calling someone fat your are being offensive, but not racist...
to quote
rac·ism
–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
4. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
There is a difference, between persecuting a race of people and being offensive to someone because they are overweight
And WHY cant you justify it? If you hate black people thats your choice, so if you want to call them niggers, thats upto you. It doesnt NEED to be justified because its a personal opinion and choice.
As I have said time and time again, if you want to call them Niggers of course you can have 'freedom of speech' but as British Law states if a complaint is made and enough evidence recieved you will be charged under racial abuse
If I hate dogs and call one a mutt, I'm not branded a Dogist and lambasted for it. But if I decide for whatever reason that I dont like a Chinese person and brand them a Chink, I'm a racist asshole who is closeminded etc? What a load of crap.
So your now comparing a race of people to dogs?!
I think you know very well, the difference between your two examples, its a derogatary term for a Human race....
I have a large group of mates, and barring any Chinese people I'm pretty sure it includes pretty much all ethnic groups including blacks, whites, indians and so on, and I like them all because when I see them, I dont see them as black, white, Indian or whatever, however for those who DO and choose for whatever reason not to like them, whats the big deal? Thats up to them and they shouldnt be slated because they dont like a certain race of people. Its not different than choosing not to like dogs, cats, cars or f'n ice cream when you get right down to the literal sense of it. Who cares?
Your slightly missing the point. Its not whether you like them or not, I happen to know a number of people from different ethnic backgrounds who I dislike, but in turn if I was to say I hate them because of their Niggers, Pakis, Wops or Chinks and not because of their personality, I am discriminating the person because of their race..and thus being racist
So she called somebody a nigger? Ohhhh no, and? I'm sure it might mean something if black people dont call each other it all the f'n time anyways! If a black person called me a cracker, I wouldnt care, no different than calling me a prat, dickhead or anything else.
Again what Historical connotations does dickhead or prat have? The use of Negros and Niggers as a discriminating term arks back to the time of the slave trade and 50's and 60's America where Black people as a race were persecuted against and seen as unequal, do we still want these racist stereotypes in todays society? Its a globally recognised derogotary term and would cause upset whatever country it was used in.....
Al Stevens
07-06-2007, 09:37 PM
I'm not going to get into this completely because i am will be honest i dont like Racism.
However something which Dave picked up on (and Dave great call) will Channel four stop playing Rap and RnB artists which use the N word, after all if one person on a stupid TV show can be censored then shouldnt they consider that if one person uses it and the station takes the action like that, then all rap artists who use it (regardless if its a Radio edit of the song) should also face the banning.
However something which Dave picked up on (and Dave great call) will Channel four stop playing Rap and RnB artists which use the N word, after all if one person on a stupid TV show can be censored then shouldnt they consider that if one person uses it and the station takes the action like that, then all rap artists who use it (regardless if its a Radio edit of the song) should also face the banning.
I am in no way condoning this, because in fact I agree wholeheartedly on the standpoint on where is the common ground....
But from looking into the use of the word in Rap and Hip Hop, the use of the 'N' word is more commonly spelt Nigga or Niggaz which took place when Young African Americans tried to subvert The 'N' word from being a racial slur but to a term of affection, so to call someone 'My Nigga' would be to call them a friend....but I agree this does seem to open up a whole debate on what and when is it appropriate
My opinion on this is that the word n*gger is really only acceptable in today's society when only black people use it. It's kinda crappy, but thats the way it is I think.
Almost every single rapper uses the word n*gger and society really doesn't care. But what happens when this white girl uses it? Holy Sh*t! Thats completey unacceptable! Even Eminem (the rapper) NEVER uses the word and he is in an industry where he probably hears it close to 25 to 50 times a day. Eminem knows he can't say it because he is white and will probably lose a large amount of his fan base if he does (not to mention he probably will have a chance to get shot at a club or something if he ever did say the word.) The only time Eminem has even touched down on the subject is when he was first starting out and he was rapping about this girl he dated in high school (who was black) and he said something along the lines of, "this black girl dumped me and she was a hoe." Eminem recieved a crap load of heat on this line and he didn't even say n*gger.(Eminem later apologized and even made a song on the incindent.)
But I know some black people still find it offensive when people of their own skin color say it. There aren't many black people in my school so I really don't know how many people find the word offensive. But if your white, then saying the word is a NO NO.
Al Stevens
07-06-2007, 09:59 PM
I am in no way condoning this, because in fact I agree wholeheartedly on the standpoint on where is the common ground....
But from looking into the use of the word in Rap and Hip Hop, the use of the 'N' word is more commonly spelt Nigga or Niggaz which took place when Young African Americans tried to subvert The 'N' word from being a racial slur but to a term of affection, so to call someone 'My Nigga' would be to call them a friend....but I agree this does seem to open up a whole debate on what and when is it appropriate
This is my point though. If OFFCOM can get alot of complains over a stupid Reality TV show and have busted channel four before (and probably would have done again) then they should bust channel four about the stuff they put on mid afternoon which the key words silenced or bleeped. They should know that kids will search songs on the internet and either download the uncut song or read the lyrics.
I think what i am trying to say is if it's not except able after a watershed show then it's not except able on any of there programming regardless of radio edits or not.
The Beltster
07-06-2007, 10:01 PM
Again what Historical connotations does dickhead or prat have? The use of Negros and Niggers as a discriminating term arks back to the time of the slave trade and 50's and 60's America where Black people as a race were persecuted against and seen as unequal, do we still want these racist stereotypes in todays society? Its a globally recognised derogotary term and would cause upset whatever country it was used in.....Oh who gives a **** about Historical God-damned connotations?! Its a load of rubbish and I'm sick of people who were persecuted decades ago still piss and moan about it today. Were any of the blacks who complain about the term nigger told that they couldnt sit on the bus or go to school with white kids recently? No they bloody well werent. When are people going to get over what happened to their ancestors generations ago and stop moaning and whining about the use of a word blaming it on such rediculous nonsense such as "historical connotations"? Its a load of old crap.
When somebody calls a black person a nigger now, its nothing to do with racial stereotypes and I doubt they have the fact that their ancestors were slaves in the freakin 50's on their minds! The word has been commercialised and promoted, its been merchandised and tamed down so damn much that the only people who find it offensive now should be the people who WERE slaves or treated like crap down to the colour of their skin in the cotton fields.
Calling somebody a nigger now is no different than calling somebody a fat *****. You pick on something specific about a person and you degrade it whether is be weight, height, hair colour or skin colour. No different IMO, at all.
And for the record, your not retarded or stupid, you know I wasnt comparing a race of people to dogs. I've never seen a dog wear a mink coat and a huge hat with a feather in it.
:devil
Chris2K
07-06-2007, 10:05 PM
Any use of the 'n' word by male, female, black, white, in any context of it being meant as a compliment or not is disgusting and completely ignorant to the horrible meanings of the word in the times that we'd all pretty much like to forget. I can see no defence for any use of the word whatsoever.
Burakiosaurus
07-06-2007, 10:08 PM
what if she had said 'negro' instead?
Nemesis Enforcer
07-06-2007, 10:17 PM
Guess the Italian football player Paulo Negro should change his name then :(
Thats just as bad Burak.See I disagree with this, because Negro is the same as Caucasian (sp), and is a way to describe a certain ethnicity.
Christof
07-06-2007, 10:20 PM
what if she had said 'negro' instead?
Thats just as bad Burak.
Aye, my English Lit teacher told me that when I was doing of Mice & Men for my GCSE's. I thought I was being articulate, instead I was being non PC.
In other news, has Mr Belty been abducted by aliens and replaced by a caveman?!?!??!
:vio3:
Ravenmark
07-06-2007, 10:26 PM
I don't understand why you vanilla faces don't just leave it alone!:greets4:
This is getting way out of hand - it's offensive to some, so it's classed as offensive, deal with it.
The Beltster
07-06-2007, 10:28 PM
In other news, has Mr Belty been abducted by aliens and replaced by a caveman?!?!??!Whats caveman about not thinking its the end of the world when somebody calls a black person a nigger or chooses not to like a person due to the colour of their skin? Incase you missed what I said, I have black friends, Indian friends, white friends etc, I dont look at them and think "He's black." or "She's white.", some people do though and thats upto them. I dont have a problem with it, I really dont care. I also think that after the way the word has been changed over the years and used in other ways, it doesnt mean NEARLY as much as it did in then 1930's etc.
There is nothing caveman about having an opinion, even if it does go against the grain of the holier than thou over-the-top PC brigade who are so scared to step out of line for fear of somebody saying something to them or who let small things like being called a nigger, paki, cracker, spic etc bother them. I'd be more insulted if you called me a c*nt.
Burakiosaurus
07-06-2007, 10:30 PM
what about the b-ball player Danny Dell-Negro ?
Ravenmark
07-06-2007, 10:31 PM
what about the b-ball player Danny Dell-Negro ?
Hasn't he had to change his name to Danny Dell-PCcorrecto?
Christof
07-06-2007, 10:37 PM
Whats caveman (insert standard Belty remarks here)
Belty, I'm no holier than thou PC brigade member, I just find your views very reminiscent of 70's comedy!
The Beltster
07-06-2007, 10:37 PM
what about the b-ball player Danny Dell-Negro ?Thats Vinny Del-Negro if you mean basketball.
Oh who gives a **** about Historical God-damned connotations?! Its a load of rubbish and I'm sick of people who were persecuted decades ago still piss and moan about it today. Were any of the blacks who complain about the term nigger told that they couldnt sit on the bus or go to school with white kids recently? No they bloody well werent. When are people going to get over what happened to their ancestors generations ago and stop moaning and whining about the use of a word blaming it on such rediculous nonsense such as "historical connotations"? Its a load of old crap.
When somebody calls a black person a nigger now, its nothing to do with racial stereotypes and I doubt they have the fact that their ancestors were slaves in the freakin 50's on their minds! The word has been commercialised and promoted, its been merchandised and tamed down so damn much that the only people who find it offensive now should be the people who WERE slaves or treated like crap down to the colour of their skin in the cotton fields.
Calling somebody a nigger now is no different than calling somebody a fat *****. You pick on something specific about a person and you degrade it whether is be weight, height, hair colour or skin colour. No different IMO, at all.
But racial persecution and abuse still takes place especially in large parts of America where some parts for both Black and White people are no go areas
Look at Mugabe in Zimbabwe, look at Darfur, Look at the Paris race riots look at the increasingly popularity of the BNP, however much you try and dismiss it racism is still there and the word Nigger and all its historical connotations which are still apparent today is an offensive and derogotary term towards Black people, as highlighted by G2G in this thread
How about religous persecution? Should we forget the Holocaust occured? Put it down as another Historical connotation, that we should be moved on from, in a world where Iran threatens to blow up Israel on a near daily basis?
The word Nigger or Negro is as much a derogotary term as it was in the 50' and 60's if it wasnt, why the furore in the first place, its not because of political correctness, its because the use and meaning of the word is still highly discriminating against someone because of their race....
As I said before To simply forget the past and move on is giving power to Le Pen, Mugabe and Ahmadinejad to continue to promote their racist idealism
To add Belty, I am interested to know....Do you call your Indian and Black friends, face to face Niggers or Pakis?
The Beltster
07-06-2007, 10:39 PM
Belty, I'm no holier than thou PC brigade member, I just find your views very reminiscent of 70's comedy!Explain with a little substance for once instead of typing some 2-line arrogant remark.
Joey Asbo
07-06-2007, 10:40 PM
What i dont get is how comes Charley dosent get kicked out for saying Ni**er as well?!
Christof
07-06-2007, 10:43 PM
Explain with a little substance for once instead of typing some 2-line arrogant remark.
Well, other than the inane ranting for some reason whenever I read your views on rascism, or PC or much of the same, I am reminded of Alf Garnett (think it was him) and other comedians / characters from the 70's. Right now for some reason I can see you dusting off the Black & White Minstrel Show DVD to remind yourself of the good old days when everyone hated anything different.
Arrogant and long enough for you or shall I warble on for another few paragraphs to get the same message across?
The Beltster
07-06-2007, 11:06 PM
But racial persecution and abuse still takes place especially in large parts of America where some parts for both Black and White people are no go areas
Look at Mugabe in Zimbabwe, look at Darfur, Look at the Paris race riots look at the increasingly popularity of the BNP, however much you try and dismiss it racism is still there and the word Nigger and all its historical connotations which are still apparent today is an offensive and derogotary term towards Black people, as highlighted by G2G in this threadI'm sure it does take place in the US, OF COURSE it does, as it does in London where there are no-go areas for whites that the Asians have 'taken over'. I'm not blind to the fact that racist is rampant all over the world and anybody who is only need open their eyes. Dont get me wrong here, I'm not condoning it, I'm simply saying it doesnt bother me when people use the word PERSONALLY as it wouldnt if somebody called me a cracker or a honky. I put those terms in the same class as other personal insults, no better, no worse.
How about religous persecution? Should we forget the Holocaust occured? Put it down as another Historical connotation, that we should be moved on from, in a world where Iran threatens to blow up Israel on a near daily basis?I never said forget anything, you never want or need to forget, but you DO need to move on, because if you dont move on you are stagnant, and you sit in your own pile of sh*t for years on end, and this is what has happened with the use of the word nigger. People need to move on, get over what happened years ago and move forward. Never forget, but never dwell.
Iran threatens to blow up Israel, no doubt. Just as so and so threatens to blow up whats his name etc. That will never end, but the word nigger, paki, wop or anything else isnt going to help it if it stopped. Its just another in a long line of derogatory words used to pick at a certain part of a persons being, culture or personality, nothing more. Because it has historical signifigance shouldnt make people think its any worse than somebody calling somebody else a fat b*stard.
Look, I've heard of people hanging themselves due to being bullied at school because of their weight, so how is that any less damaging than somebody calling somebody else a Spic? Its not. You talk about historical connotations and signifigance, I'm sure people in the 1930's were calling other people fat aswell. Sure, there is a difference, fat people werent slaves because they were fat, but thats only because they couldnt work as fast as the athletic blacks! (That was a joke, before your head explodes;))
The word Nigger or Negro is as much a derogotary term as it was in the 50' and 60's if it wasnt, why the furore in the first place, its not because of political correctness, its because the use and meaning of the word is still highly discriminating against someone because of their race....The reasons its seen as much is because black people have clung onto it for dear life as a reason why whites are such gits. Look, black people arent slaves anymore, the worst is over in regards to that, so why sorry about a word that was used as an insult decades ago? You dont hear Indians moaning about the Paki term, whites about the cracker term etc nearly as much as you do the blacks about the word nigger. Why? Is being called that THAT much worse than calling ANY other race a racial slur? Why is it if somebody says "Look at that cracker!" or somebody says "I'm ordering a chinky to dinner!" when they get a Chinese take out, nobody really bats an eyelid, yet when somebody DARES say "Nigger!" the world comes to a screetching halt and all hell breaks loose? Its rediculous.
As I said before To simply forget the past and move on is giving power to Le Pen, Mugabe and Ahmadinejad to continue to promote their racist idealismI disagree. Moving onwards and upwards is what everybodies goal in life should be, and to dwell on something and sit in your own putrid pile of muck worrying about it is not.
Like I said, you dont have to forget, you done even have to forgive, but you shouldnt dwell, EVER. Thats when you get twisted and bitter.
Burakiosaurus
07-06-2007, 11:12 PM
Explain with a little substance for once instead of typing some 2-line arrogant remark.
do you need a ladder to get off that high horse of yours?
because i would find it highly amusing if you fell from said horse and broke both your legs on impact
The Beltster
07-06-2007, 11:14 PM
Well, other than the inane ranting for some reason whenever I read your views on rascism, or PC or much of the same, I am reminded of Alf Garnett (think it was him) and other comedians / characters from the 70's. Right now for some reason I can see you dusting off the Black & White Minstrel Show DVD to remind yourself of the good old days when everyone hated anything different.
Arrogant and long enough for you or shall I warble on for another few paragraphs to get the same message across?I'm curious, who are you to say its "inane ranting" simply because it might not agree with your line of thought? Isnt that the same thing as being a racist? You labelled me and my throughts because you disagree with them, much the same way people label other races because they dont agree with their ways, thoughts or skin colour. Funny when you break it down and strip it right down to the bare bones, isnt it? And I didnt realise your opinion meant more than anybody elses, maybe I should fall in line with you and your correct opinion and not have one of my own, one that doesnt resemble your own? You REALLY do think you are a class above other people, dont you?
Incase you missed it Mr. Ignorance, I'm not a racist whatsoever. I have friends of all creeds and colours who I dont class as blacks, white, Indians, Asians or anything other than friends, so your rediculous comparison to Alf Garnett is without merit, like most of the nonsense you spew which isnt about Cricket.
And please, feel free to warble on as long as you like, you have been doing it for years, why stop now?
I'm sure it does take place in the US, OF COURSE it does, as it does in London where there are no-go areas for whites that the Asians have 'taken over'. I'm not blind to the fact that racist is rampant all over the world and anybody who is only need open their eyes. Dont get me wrong here, I'm not condoning it, I'm simply saying it doesnt bother me when people use the word PERSONALLY as it wouldnt if somebody called me a cracker or a honky. I put those terms in the same class as other personal insults, no better, no worse.
So if your not condoning racism, you can see how Black people could be fully justified in being offended by being called a Nigger?
Incase you missed it Mr. Ignorance, I'm not a racist whatsoever. I have friends of all creeds and colours who I dont class as blacks, white, Indians, Asians or anything other than friends
Plus you never answered my question, do you refer face to face to you Black and Indian friends as Niggers or Paki's?
Isnt that the same thing as being a racist? You labelled me and my throughts because you disagree with them, much the same way people label other races because they dont agree with their ways, thoughts or skin colour. Funny when you break it down and strip it right down to the bare bones, isnt it?
Not really, Can you really not see there is a difference between Opinion and skin colour....?
And I didnt realise your opinion meant more than anybody elses, maybe I should fall in line with you and your correct opinion and not have one of my own, one that doesnt resemble your own?
Horrible being persecuted against.....isnt it!?
But as you said...lets not dwell
Like I said, you dont have to forget, you done even have to forgive, but you shouldnt dwell, EVER. Thats when you get twisted and bitter.
Its a bit hard when as a race you have been persecuted against for 100 years, just for the colour of your skin....Maybe, just maybe thats why the 'N' word is so senstive...
Can we knock this on the head now. Beltmark thinks it's not that bad a thing, MG thinks it is. Neither of you are going to change the other's mindset, so let it drop and then we can all start insulting Polish people.
Come on black people, get over it!
is all I can take from your posts Belty. Just because a white chap like yourself thinks something doesn't make it so. That's sort what caused the problem in the first place...
Burakiosaurus
07-06-2007, 11:30 PM
so let it drop and then we can all start insulting Polish people.
you racist. i'm suing you for sexual harassment.
Joey Asbo
07-06-2007, 11:34 PM
I'm simply saying it doesnt bother me when people use the word PERSONALLY as it wouldnt if somebody called me a cracker or a honky. .
I have a chinese friend who calls himself Honky, he bloody loves it! i think he just wanted to fit in with us other generic whites when we were in school - he even got it printed on his footy shirt!!
Burakiosaurus
07-06-2007, 11:57 PM
does he have 'Peckerwod' printed somewhere too?
What i dont get is how comes Charley dosent get kicked out for saying Ni**er as well?!
I'm glad someone else picked this up too. I mentioned it to my sister during the show. It's pretty "racist" how only the white person got punished. And I'm sure Charley used it alot more during/after that convo than Emily.
The Beltster
08-06-2007, 12:05 AM
So if your not condoning racism, you can see how Black people could be fully justified in being offended by being called a Nigger?Of course I can, I never said they shouldnt be insulted, I said that I dont think the word nigger is any more insulting than being called a *****, cracker, tw*t or anything else. Thats not to say I dont understand why people consider it such a taboo, but that doesnt change anything.
Plus you never answered my question, do you refer face to face to you Black and Indian friends as Niggers or Paki's?No, I dont. I also dont refer to them as black people or Indians, or crackers, caucasions or whites for that matter. They have names, I refer to them by such. Your point isnt really strong here. Because I dont find the term nigger insulting, doesnt mean I go around calling black people niggers. If a person gets on my nerves, white, black, Indian or Asian, I'll call him a prat, skin colour doesnt occur to me, because regardless of what some people here MIGHT think, I dont see people down to the colour of their skin.
Not really, Can you really not see there is a difference between Opinion and skin colour....?I think you are missing my point.
Horrible being persecuted against.....isnt it!?
But as you said...lets not dwellHaving a different opinion is on the level of persecution? Maybe now I'm missing your point.
Its a bit hard when as a race you have been persecuted against for 100 years, just for the colour of your skin....Maybe, just maybe thats why the 'N' word is so senstive...So you just drag the harsh feelings out for the rest of eternity and continue to concern yourself with that what happened decades ago? Thats counter-productive and will induce hate mongering.
Can we knock this on the head now. Beltmark thinks it's not that bad a thing, MG thinks it is. Neither of you are going to change the other's mindset, so let it drop and then we can all start insulting Polish people.Probably a good idea.
is all I can take from your posts Belty. Just because a white chap like yourself thinks something doesn't make it so. That's sort what caused the problem in the first place...Then either you havent grabbed the gist of my posts or I havent done a very good job of explaining my stance.
I'm not saying black people should get over it, just as I dont think fat people should accept being insulted due to their weight. My point is, I PERSONALLY dont see the difference in insults whether they be about race, height, weight, zits, hair colour, odor etc. An insult is an insult. Thats not to say I dont see how they are promoted as one being worse than the other, but I dont take one insult any more personal than the next. I'm not trying to get anybody to see it my way or agree, I'm simply sharing my views. Its a shame some people (and I'm not talking about you) have to become insulting and petty and resort to name calling and labelling in a thread where they are trying to say name calling and labelling people is wrong. There is some irony there.
so let it drop and then we can all start insulting Polish people.
Leave Mr Sheen alone.....
I'm actually a little confused on Good2Go's opinion on this. Good2Go, are you saying that you only take offense to the word when it is said in a way that is truly offensive (like, Screw you n*gga) or are you saying it is offensive no matter who says it or how it's said?
Of course I can, I never said they shouldnt be insulted, I said that I dont think the word nigger is any more insulting than being called a *****, cracker, tw*t or anything else. Thats not to say I dont understand why people consider it such a taboo, but that doesnt change anything.
I see, and agree to some extents...my only point was if you were to say the following statements in front of a Police Officer, which one would you be charged for
a.) Bob you fat ****
b.) Bob you ****ing Nigger
Having a different opinion is on the level of persecution? Maybe now I'm missing your point.
I was just highlighting that most of 1950's America's opinion of Black people was what lead to such persecution.....
So you just drag the harsh feelings out for the rest of eternity and continue to concern yourself with that what happened decades ago? Thats counter-productive and will induce hate mongering
No...I was just reinforcing the point, why after all this time the 'N' Word...is still seen as derogotary by most Black People....
Probably a good idea.
I agree....
Al Stevens
08-06-2007, 12:18 AM
I'm actually a little confused on Good2Go's opinion on this. Good2Go, are you saying that you only take offense to the word when it is said in a way that is truly offensive (like, Screw you n*gga) or are you saying it is offensive no matter who says it or how it's said?
With Good2Go i think because he has had it said to him loads of times regardless the meaning (even if it's in jest) he will find it offensive.
I suppose it's down to the person but it's something i respect
I'm actually a little confused on Good2Go's opinion on this. Good2Go, are you saying that you only take offense to the word when it is said in a way that is truly offensive (like, Screw you n*gga) or are you saying it is offensive no matter who says it or how it's said?I think what he said earlier in the thread helps:
I was racially abused in the high street and called "nigger" repeatedly by a racist scumbag, and to this day its one of the lowest points of my life, I cant even begin to describe how hurt I felt. For anyone who thinks "nigger" is just another word, I would advise you to think again, because that is one of the most hurtful words I know. I dont even like being called it by other black people.
Joey Asbo
08-06-2007, 12:26 AM
does he have 'Peckerwod' printed somewhere too?
:? i dont know what that means!
Slim Jim
08-06-2007, 12:26 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peckerwood perhaps?
Well judging by what he said there, then I guess he just doesn't like to be called that by someone.
But I know he listens to DMX and other rappers that use the word in almost every song. So do you find that offensive Good2Go?
Hardcore Holly
08-06-2007, 12:29 AM
Well judging by what he said there, then I guess he just doesn't like to be called that by someone.
But I know he listens to DMX and other rappers that use the word in almost every song. So do you find that offensive Good2Go?
I think its a little different than being called it on the street and listening to rappers say it in songs.
The Beltster
08-06-2007, 12:35 AM
I think its a little different than being called it on the street and listening to rappers say it in songs.To a degree, but surely if you find a word insulting, you will be insulted regardless of who says it and in what context? I know if I said f*ck around my Nan, she would be so insulted she would belt me and likely never speak to me again, and its not like I'm calling her a f*cker...
To a degree, but surely if you find a word insulting, you will be insulted regardless of who says it and in what context? I know if I said f*ck around my Nan, she would be so insulted she would belt me and likely never speak to me again, and its not like I'm calling her a f*cker...
God do you ever let it drop?!?....Stop being so God Damn Ageist....
The Beltster
08-06-2007, 01:02 AM
God do you ever let it drop?!?....Stop being so God Damn Ageist....I cant help myself.
I cant help myself.
Neither can I....Protector of all things Black and Old....!!
Oh and just for those who thought I was being serious in the post above...I forgot the ;)
I'm actually a little confused on Good2Go's opinion on this. Good2Go, are you saying that you only take offense to the word when it is said in a way that is truly offensive (like, Screw you n*gga) or are you saying it is offensive no matter who says it or how it's said?
I take offense to the word no matter how it's said, like I said before I dont even like other black people calling me the word, or even listening to it in hip hop.
Well judging by what he said there, then I guess he just doesn't like to be called that by someone.
But I know he listens to DMX and other rappers that use the word in almost every song. So do you find that offensive Good2Go?
I dont mind a bit of DMX, Ruff Ryders, EPMD etc as I was brought up to a lot of hip hop surrounding me by my friends and brother. I do have a genuine respect for most hip hop stars as they were brought up on the streets and instead of turning to a life of guns and crime, they've found something much more positive to channel their energies to.
That being said though I really dont like or appreciate the word being used in rap songs at all, I just feel a sense of complete let down when its used, I always have.
I always found it strange when it was used in Hip Hop aswell.
Prototype
08-06-2007, 07:33 AM
I take offense to the word no matter how it's said, like I said before I dont even like other black people calling me the word, or even listening to it in hip hop.
Excuse me for butting in here G2G and I mean no offense by this question whatsoever but if you find the use of the "N-word" offensive and agree with the expulsion of Emily from the Big Brother house (which I'm assuming that you do), would you agree with both Charley and Nicky being removed from the house for their blatant over-use of the word in the subsequent conversations with each other about the incident?
I personally find the word distasteful in whatever context it's used and I do feel that if you can punish one person (regardless of their race) for using a racist term, then you must punish all who use it. You can't have one rule (or law) for one and one rule (or law) for someone else because no-one then knows where the line you mustn't step over is drawn.
Excuse me for butting in here G2G and I mean no offense by this question whatsoever but if you find the use of the "N-word" offensive and agree with the expulsion of Emily from the Big Brother house (which I'm assuming that you do), would you agree with both Charley and Nicky being removed from the house for their blatant over-use of the word in the subsequent conversations with each other about the incident
It's a forum Mate, you're welcome to butt in anytime. :xyx
While I agree Emily was right to get chucked out, I feel that Charley and Nicky were only using the word to try and get some sort of explanation out of Emily for using it. I'm not saying I excuse Charley or Nicky for saying it, by any stretch of the imagination, but like in this thread for instance people have said the N Word to get their point across with no malice or intent towards me or other black people which of course is fair enough.
Anyway off to work now Ladies and Gents, and wont be able to see this thread again until about 5pm. Have a good day :greets4:
While I agree Emily was right to get chucked out, I feel that Charley and Nicky were only using the word to try and get some sort of explanation out of Emily for using it.
That is how it came across to me. For me there was a slight difference...
Where Emily stated "You pushing it out you nigger" where in conversation, it was still the referral towards someone as a nigger, whilst the other use by Nicky and Charley were not a statement of referral towards another housemate but more some clarification of the statement.
Still I think it would have only been proper for Big Brother to act in the light of the situation, and warn both contestants of the gravity of the word, and there restraint from using it in all further conversations
The Beltster
08-06-2007, 09:04 AM
Neither can I....Protector of all things Black and Old....!!Does that include a crusty old turd? Thats black AND old...
Does that include a crusty old turd? Thats black AND old...
You have problems if your turd is black....:lol
I cant help touching myself.There are numbers you can call that deal with this kind of thing.:P
I think, in regards to the Big Brother thing, it's how it was said. Emily didn't say, "Are you pushing it out ni*ger," she said, "Are you pushing it out you ni*ger," which isn't as "friendly". She is basically saying you are a nigger, changing the tone slightly, and that is where she went wrong.
Add in the fact that the other girls may not have been offended by it, but they were definately uncomfortable with it.
Wolverine
08-06-2007, 09:29 AM
Political correctness is getting way out of control. They're even trying to ban dwarf tossing now. :(
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1008/1008550_dwarf_contest_causes_row.html
Darkstar
08-06-2007, 09:53 AM
I certainly wouldnt use the word nigger as anything but a joke (many times at work or on MSN I have greeted people with 'yo nigga' as a nod at Richard Pryor) with people. I certainly dont think its a word that should be used in a passing conversation or as a description!
BUT, and I apologise to any blacks here, I cant take it seriously as an insult in and of itself due to its constant use by blacks in music, comedy or street slang. I understand that it can be USED offensively, but that brings it down to the user not the word/term itself.
Did that make sense? :lol
The Beltster
08-06-2007, 10:05 AM
You have problems if your turd is black....:lolYou said old and black, old turds go black...when you have to explain it, it looses everything man! :lol
There are numbers you can call that deal with this kind of thing.:PWhy would I want to stop that?! I'm in my prime and it gets lonely out at the old lighthouse.
That will be my last off topic remark for at least 6 minutes.
Nicole
08-06-2007, 10:20 AM
Ain't she a bit daft saying that in a house where shes only been a week, and a house that was rocked by racism the show previously?!? Complete paper hat.
Jimmy Redman
08-06-2007, 10:38 AM
This reminds me of an early episode of, believe it or not, The White Rapper Show. One of the female contestants called someone else a nigger, the guy was offended (both whites), so she went on an entire rant about how she always uses the word and its OK and such. She ended up getting punished on the show, and had to wear a huge, obvious chain that said "N-WORD" out in public.
I've no idea what the point of my story is, but there you go.
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