Moves and tips guide for your Character's attitude

[Saz]

As asked by Bretty B, here is a little quick list of Dos and Don'ts, I'm not going to give explainations as to why, you just have to trust me on this.

I'll start though with a list of traditional moves:

Good guy:

Drop kick
Huricanrana
Sunset flip
Anything that takes skill (usually high rope moves)

Small guy:

Russian Legsweep
Roll up pins
Suplexes
Anything acrobatic

Tall guy/ Large guy:

Powerbomb
Chokeslam
Most power moves

Bad guy:

Knee lift
Eye rake
Choke
Low blow
Sleeper holds

Don'ts

Don't make your bad guy a superb wrestler, Bad guys cannot wrestle!
Don't do any big moves in the first half of the match, both opponents are too fresh and will be working their opponent down. A fresh opponent would stop them.
Don't do anything that would, in reality kill a wrestler, ie 30ft drop onto concrete, it's not believable when they get up!
Don't have anyone kick out of a finisher, or what's the point of calling it a finisher?
Don't listen to the audience when they are calling out for something to happen, In a TLC match they usually call for the table within 5 mins of the match starting, remember, once you go through a table you are out for a while, trust me, I know!

Dos

Do revenge tactics for good guys, if they have been low blowed loads of times then the good guy has license from the audience to give him on back, in fact they usually demand it.
Do remember that the good guy always stays in the rules unless provoked, the bad guy usually gets away with murder.
Do let your good guys fall for the tricks, good guys are thick, or they would be bad guys!


That's about it before i get too deep into it...

Saz

[Evil Gringo]

Saz, in your humble opinon is there anything wrong with my move set...

Take in mind these facts though...

The Gringo is supposed to be unique in his offense and actions and also it is supposed to be taylored to allow we to take on all weights in some kind of style.

[Twig]

Don't have anyone kick out of a finisher, or what's the point of calling it a finisher?

That is of course unless it's in the main event for a PPV, then it may take a couple finishers to put them away.

[LiveStrong]

Don't make your bad guy a superb wrestler, Bad guys cannot wrestle!



HAHA i knew Cena should be a bad guy...

a little of topic.. but nevermind

[Evil Gringo]

Also as a person who isn't an e-fed player... what are you doing spaming up the thread?

[Christof]

HAHA i knew Cena should be a bad guy...

a little of topic.. but nevermind

Livestrong - DO NOT spam up the e-fed. You have plenty of other forums to spam.

[MrFill]

There are obvious exceptions to all of this:
Don't make your bad guy a superb wrestler, Bad guys cannot wrestle!
Kurt is a fantastic bad guy, and one of the best wrestlers on the planet.

[The Doctor]

There are obvious exceptions to all of this:

Originally Posted by Saracen
Don't make your bad guy a superb wrestler, Bad guys cannot wrestle!

Kurt is a fantastic bad guy, and one of the best wrestlers on the planet.
I know where he's coming from. Typical heel tactics include employing illegal moves and using the tights or ropes for leverage. In a match with poor psychology behind it, it can seem like the heel is using these methods for no particular reason other than because it is what we expect of them. But if the story being told in the ring is a heel's mounting anger/frustration that the face won't stay down for the 1-2-3 and his inability to get the job done on his own merits, then his use of pokes to the eye and feet on the ropes etc makes a lot more sense - they are the desperation moves of an inferior wrestler.

Angle is atypical - his whole gimmick is of being an Olympic Gold medallist, and the stellar matches he has produced in the past mean that him using his feet for leverage, etc as a cheat just doesn't sit right. We know he can outwrestle anyone and it is pointless pretending otherwise.

[The Doctor]

Good guy:

Sunset flip
Anything that takes skill (usually high rope moves)

Anything acrobatic

Notice my springboard Sunset Flip in last week's main event, peeps? Or BB going up for a Moonsault? You'd have never seen BB doing that in heel mode! The ropes are for putting your feet on for a pin and choking them with! :devil


Don'ts

Don't do any big moves in the first half of the match, both opponents are too fresh and will be working their opponent down. A fresh opponent would stop them.
Couldn't agree more. Watching a quality match is all about pacing - the initial basic grapples building up to bigger moves as the match progresses.

Don't have anyone kick out of a finisher, or what's the point of calling it a finisher?
Hard to stick to that rigidly when we've seen it done so often. But certainly best reserved for a major sell-job or PPVs. I hate people kicking out of genuinely vicious finishers, most notably piledrivers, as if nothing has happened. Ask Steve Austin, and far too many others - that move means business and needs to be taken seriously.


Don't listen to the audience when they are calling out for something to happen
"Tomcat" Kevin O'Neill in FCW did a perfect example of this. A couple of solid sounding kicks to an opponent's back after a snapmere had some shouting "harder!". He asked the crowd "you want another?". Sadistic buggers say "yeeeeeah!". He does a headlock. :worship

[Boyo]

Good guy:

Drop kick
Huricanrana
Sunset flip
Anything that takes skill (usually high rope moves)
Boyo (heel) does none of these moves.


Small guy:

Russian Legsweep
Roll up pins
Suplexes
Anything acrobatic
Boyo (heel) does none of these moves (although could a 360 Tornado Punch be classed as acrobatic?)


Tall guy/ Large guy:

Powerbomb
Chokeslam
Most power moves
Boyo (heel) rarely does power moves. He is tallish, but is wiry. I suppose a running powerslam counts as a power move?


Bad guy:

Knee lift
Eye rake
Choke
Low blow
Sleeper holds
Boyo (heel) does 3 of these moves. Rarely does Boyo choke people.

At least I know I'm on the right track!

But:

Don'ts

Don't make your bad guy a superb wrestler, Bad guys cannot wrestle!
Boyo (heel) is a superb wrestler, and I must disagree here. A heel can definitely be a superb wrestler as long as the heel knows he is a damned good wrestler, everyone thinks he's a damned good wrestler, and yet he still cheats to win. As long as the heel is a complete asshole then being a great wrestler works.

I do agree that heels shouldn't do high risk aerial moves though. If your heel character does kick a lot of butt, make the man either
a) very powerful

or

b) slow and methodical (like Boyo!)

Cheers!

[TMJ]

I know where he's coming from. Typical heel tactics include employing illegal moves and using the tights or ropes for leverage. In a match with poor psychology behind it, it can seem like the heel is using these methods for no particular reason other than because it is what we expect of them. But if the story being told in the ring is a heel's mounting anger/frustration that the face won't stay down for the 1-2-3 and his inability to get the job done on his own merits, then his use of pokes to the eye and feet on the ropes etc makes a lot more sense - they are the desperation moves of an inferior wrestler.

Angle is atypical - his whole gimmick is of being an Olympic Gold medallist, and the stellar matches he has produced in the past mean that him using his feet for leverage, etc as a cheat just doesn't sit right. We know he can outwrestle anyone and it is pointless pretending otherwise.
Jericho as a heel is still a great wrestler, and is shown as such, whether he uses illegal holds or not. Michaels cheated a little as a heel, and mostly bumped like mad, but he was always a solid wrestler, and still presented as tenacious even as a bad guy. Owen Hart, Chris Benoit, Ted DiBiase, all were heels with heel mannorisms and heel gimmicks, but they could still wrestle, and were presented as guys who could wrestle and wrestle well.

If anything, if you're gonna say that bad guys can never wrestle, you should more accurately say that some of the biggest babyfaces of the modern wrestling era weren't superb wrestlers either. Hogan is the most prime example you will ever get, and guys like DiBiase did the wrestling in those matches vs. Hogan.

[The Doctor]

Jericho as a heel is still a great wrestler, and is shown as such, whether he uses illegal holds or not. Michaels cheated a little as a heel, and mostly bumped like mad, but he was always a solid wrestler, and still presented as tenacious even as a bad guy. Owen Hart, Chris Benoit, Ted DiBiase, all were heels with heel mannorisms and heel gimmicks, but they could still wrestle, and were presented as guys who could wrestle and wrestle well.

If anything, if you're gonna say that bad guys can never wrestle, you should more accurately say that some of the biggest babyfaces of the modern wrestling era weren't superb wrestlers either. Hogan is the most prime example you will ever get, and guys like DiBiase did the wrestling in those matches vs. Hogan.
When we are talking about heels, the actual wrestler, not the character he's portraying, often is a superior worker. Traditionally, the heel "calls" the match, dominating the face and literally telling him what to do, right down to when he should do his comeback(s). Looking at it that way, the heel takes more responsibility for the success of a match than the face and it is superior wrestlers that are trusted with the heel role by the booker(s).

I believe the main reason people are disagreeing with some of Saz's points is a clash of cultures here. Dra, you are giving examples that go against his advice from the WWE. Saz's teachings come far more from a UK based perspective. They come from respected veterans of World of Sport that he has trained with, wrestled against and had the opportunity to talk to, and his dealings with present day UK indie workers.

Also bear in mind that there are always exceptions to every rule, and as is often said, "rules are there to be broken". But that doesn't mean that these guidelines don't have merit or relevance or that we should dismiss them lightly, believing we know better, as they have great heritage behind them and a great many superlative wrestlers who'd give their support to them. :)

[TMJ]

I believe the main reason people are disagreeing with some of Saz's points is a clash of cultures here. Dra, you are giving examples that go against his advice from the WWE. Saz's teachings come far more from a UK based perspective. They come from respected veterans of World of Sport that he has trained with, wrestled against and had the opportunity to talk to, and his dealings with present day UK indie workers.
I know, I figured whilst posting my last post. But this is a more WWE-influenced fed. Doesn't mean that any of Saz's points are 'wrong' because he's learned from getting into the thick of things and learning first hand the UK style compared to most of us who predominantly observe the WWE and learn that way. But I think that, in this instance, we're very much dealing with a WWE way of doing things since half the people in this fed most likely aren't followers of the UK scene or the UK style. Hence the disagreements, which are as fair as Saracens points, no more no less.

[Saz]

Didn't want to start an argument, but to hopefully put the discussion to bed.

I have described wrestling in its most basic form, you take what I have said and base acharacter about those rules.

They are the rules of wrestling full stop and all countries adhere to them at some level, yes there are exceptions to the rule and every rule is made to be broken.

Million Dollar man was one of the best wrestlers I ever saw, however, he always cheated his opponent when they got the upperhand. When I say bad guys can't wrestle, of course they can, it's that they can't wrestle under pressure of this good looking asshole who steals the limelight.

If a bad guy outshines the goodguy in wrestling ability, then no one can really get on the good guy's side can they?

Just use em as a basis and see.

Saz

[Darkstar]

Hmmm, Sickness does do a few high risk moves like a 450 and a SSP. But thats part of the suicidal monster gimmick. But hey, works for me. :P

[Twig]

Hmm, Twiggie really breaks away by being a heel that goes high risk, doesn't he? However, I think that Twig can pull this off if he's showing that he wants to get the job done by any means necessarry(sure he uses dirty tactics) even if it means putting his own body on the line. Whether it be to stop a semi truck transporting toxic waste through residential neighborhoods, to put some one down for the count, or just to cut down billboards defacing country roads.

I guess the crowd will always pop for high fliers won't they? But liking a move doesn't mean you like the wrestler, does it? Please, tell me if you think I'm in the wrong here.

[Destroyer]

Hmmm, a new more challenging then I thought. Hmmmm

[TGO]

If your not in the efed please dont post here

[MrFill]

He's just joined the training forum. :)

[TGO]

Nice, Just one thing are you theh fury from chat ???????

[MrFill]

If you're not part of the efed, not wishing to join, please don't spam up the threads.

[MrFill]

I am slightly less articulated than Mandulla
But your reading skills are just as poor.

If you don't want to join the efed, don't spam up our forums.

A great way to start your time on the forum - being a spammer!

[Twig]

And by the way, get the hell out of my internet...! Or at least leave the e-fed forums and never come back.