the signature move situation

[Fidel Cashflow]

Okay, this recently popped up in the Ask Gringo thread when I asked him if a move I have thought up of (a wrist clutch/cut-throat suplex/burning hammer)

B-Man replied, seemingly angry, about the fact that Mickhail Mills had a version of the Hammer in his arsenal. Banner also replied supporting his claims.

I really don’t see the problem; my finishers are like those of a puro wrestler. The first choice and most common finisher, The Phenomenal Effect, the less common and more devastating move, Tiger Driver ’91, and his ultimate finisher he uses to “kill” his opponents, the Phoenix Down (my hammer variation). I even have a three suplex combination rounding off in a Millenium Suplex before the Phoenix Down

The move that previously held the spot, the SSD, was used once since February. Even then it was used in the wrong context. This move will be used in only the most extreme of matches, the type that I haven’t even been in yet.

[MrFill]

I think the problem is that we've had examples where people shouldn't be using the same finisher, so adding a Hammer variant, when Baz has had the Hammer since he arrived is a little "off". It's almost like you're copying his most devistating move and adding a "twist" onto it.

The other problem is that you have a LOT of technical moves - but your character isn't "Heavily Technical" and only "Technical" - so your character suddenly develops the amazing ability to pull off really complex moves, when he's not shown the ability before.

Also, since other people will write matches using Mills, how will they know what type of "extreme" matches will warrant using the move? You aren't the only person who will write matches for your character.

The Hammer is known as one of the most devistating moves, so you suddenly doing a more complicated variation lessens the effect of Barry's move.



I'm not saying this because of my friendship with Barry, I'm doing it from the experience in efedding - you're effectively "stealing" a move, when you're not even feuding with Baz, and your character shouldn't even be able to pull off the move.

[The Doctor]

I am certainly not trying to take sides here, just call it as I see it. Barry's Burning Hammer has been built up to be a devastating finisher. So another wrestler using a variant of it just doesn't seem right to me - it lessens the potency of BG's finisher and makes it seem like a generic move.

Think of WWE wrestlers who have a hyped up finisher. Let's take HHH as an example. Another wrestler would never use a Pedigree variant as a move in their arsenal. Or Rey Mysterio's 619, etc, etc.

There will be similarities at times, for instance, the "Batista Bomb" and "The Last Ride" are just powerbomb variants, and several people have done chokeslams for instance. But some finishers seem sacred. If Barry thinks the Burning Hammer is one, why disagree? What do you possibly have to gain from slapping him in the face like that when all he's asking for is a little respect towards his character? Seems reasonable enough to me.

[Evil Gringo]

It's like this though.... What if Sprial is aiming to fued with Gower or goad him?

In Dragon's Gate K-NESS devolped moves to counter those of his most frequent rivals Dragon Kid and Milano AT...

CIMA also devolped a move known as the Egoist Schwien (A Twiggieplex of sorts) which was a modification of his big rival Magnum TOKYO's finish the Egoist Driver (Pumphandle Michinoku Driver II)

What if it was explained as jealousy of his Re-Evolution's partners finish and he brought it out as part of a tease?

I'm not saying he should use it but that is a plausable explation of the addition of the move by Spiral...

[The B-Man]

It's like this though.... What if Sprial is aiming to fued with Gower or goad him?

In Dragon's Gate K-NESS devolped moves to counter those of his most frequent rivals Dragon Kid and Milano AT...

CIMA also devolped a move known as the Egoist Schwien (A Twiggieplex of sorts) which was a modification of his big rival Magnum TOKYO's finish the Egoist Driver (Pumphandle Michinoku Driver II)

What if it was explained as jealousy of his Re-Evolution's partners finish and he brought it out as part of a tease?

I'm not saying he should use it but that is a plausable explation of the addition of the move by Spiral...

Im not angry as Spiral Tap thinks I am. I just think it is stupid, IF he was fueding with me then fair enough but I am not. At the end of the day if you all think he shoudl be allowed to use the move then that's ok with me. I just think it will make my move look weak and as MrFill pointed out he shouldn't even be able to hit this move never mind most of the other moves in his profile.

[MrFill]

The problem is that he's not feuding with Barry, as far as I know he's going to be feuding with TGO.

If he was feuding with Baz, then it'd be acceptible, but it currently looks like he's just trying to "one up" one of the other wrestlers, even though his guy shouldn't be able to pull off the move.


Think of it as if JBL suddenly started using the rolling german suplexes when he's got nothing to do with Benoit, people would immediately say "What the Hell?", especially since he's not technical enough to be able to do it. i.e. it would be INCREDIBLY dangerous to his opponent.


Of course, he could pull the moves of if he's deliberately trying to injure his opponents. :D

[Telf]

Personally, I think Spiral should just drop the move, purely in the best interest of Baz's character

Barry Gower, from what i've read, is pretty much made on the devastating effect of the Burning Hammer. The fact that it's booked this way, or at least this is the way it seems to me, means that it should stay unique to the character.

As Baz has said, if the 2 were locked in a feud then fair enough - could easily be booked along the lines of "who has the most devasting Burning Hammer" But this isn't the case as Mills is simply not known for this move

Spiral having this move for Mickhail Mills does, in my opinion, lessen the credibility of the Gower character

[Darkstar]

Come on guys, 3 people had the Tazzmission (or varient) as a finisher and so I dropped it as mine despite the fact I used it in actual pro bouts as my finisher. But its Ok, now I will be bringing in a new one.

And Twiggie has the Tazmission as a move thats not his finisher, but its cool as its one I can imagin him doing! HOWEVER, I think the Hammer should only really be a finisher: lets be honest its a nasty move! :)

Oh, I should add that I agree Mills should lose it.

[Evil Gringo]

Just so long as my point about the potentional of the move cropping up in a fued manner is remembered booking team...

It would add great storyline and psychological depth...

But as I said before, only in the event of a fued...

And does this also mean that the person in the training forum who uses a variation of my Shock Threapy won't be allowed to do that too?

[Christof]

Indeed it does EG

Finisher vs Finisher eh? That's how the devastating F-U got invented!

[Evil Gringo]

Christof... It wasn't invented for the purpose of the Brock v Cena fued, trust me on that...

But a good example if such a storyline occurance where to occur would be if Twiggie used my Mexican Phoenix or DSP on me as he is a highflyer and the size etc....

Or I adapted the Skullburner into a Pumphandle one to rip his finish for example....

[Twig]

And Twiggie has the Tazmission as a move thats not his finisher, but its cool as its one I can imagin him doing! HOWEVER, I think the Hammer should only really be a finisher: lets be honest its a nasty move! :)

I'm glad you can see me doing it, because I used to pull it out when I wrestled (all-be-it backyard) but back then I was booked as a little guy who every one else could toss about. I'd lock in the takahajame, and they could break out of it by pulling my arms apart with their free hand. I don't mean to downplay the hold, but when Twig uses it it's not that devestating (let's blame it on weak arms).

[Fidel Cashflow]

Wait, all of you guys are saying this as if I just sat down and said, “Hey, how can I make Gower look bad today. Oh wait, I know, rip off his finisher!!!!”>

It’s not like that. I thought of this move for another fed. The name of the move, the Phoenix Down, was the most direct point because I invented it to use on another member of that fed whose slogan and gimmick is “like a phoenix from the ashes”. The name is from a potion in Final Fantasy 8, but it worked with the move.

Now, not by any means was I trying to make someone else’s character look bad. I didn’t even think of Gower when I thought of the move, and why should I?

If Barry thinks the Burning Hammer is one, why disagree? What do you possibly have to gain from slapping him in the face like that when all he's asking for is a little respect towards his character? Seems reasonable enough to me.

Wow. So I really must’ve spent hours cooking up some plot slap him in the face. Gosh, I’m such a diabolical person! This comment amazes me. I wanted to piss Barry off, so I launch a mission into action to lessen the credibility of his Efed character. Let me guess, I E-Slapped him…

Barry, if you me having this move for my character lessens the credibility of yours, I will drop it and replace it with something else I think up of.

It’s a done deal…e-deal(had to do that again)

[The B-Man]

Wait, all of you guys are saying this as if I just sat down and said, “Hey, how can I make Gower look bad today. Oh wait, I know, rip off his finisher!!!!”>

It’s not like that. I thought of this move for another fed. The name of the move, the Phoenix Down, was the most direct point because I invented it to use on another member of that fed whose slogan and gimmick is “like a phoenix from the ashes”. The name is from a potion in Final Fantasy 8, but it worked with the move.

Now, not by any means was I trying to make someone else’s character look bad. I didn’t even think of Gower when I thought of the move, and why should I?



Wow. So I really must’ve spent hours cooking up some plot slap him in the face. Gosh, I’m such a diabolical person! This comment amazes me. I wanted to piss Barry off, so I launch a mission into action to lessen the credibility of his Efed character. Let me guess, I E-Slapped him…

Barry, if you me having this move for my character lessens the credibility of yours, I will drop it and replace it with something else I think up of.

It’s a done deal…e-deal(had to do that again)

Ok I know when you thought of this move you weren't delibrately having a shot at my character. Becasue the move is a varation of my move and a better one id prefer if you didn't use it as one you aren't fueding with me and two the hammer is devestating enough on it's own your move would just make mine look weak. Hope you understand:)

[MrFill]

You obviously missed/ignored one of the points I made.

Your character shouldn't be able to pull of the move - would you expect Cena to be able to do a Millenium Suplex? (Crossface Chickenwing Suplex) No, because he's not technically competant enough to be able to do the move safely.

If your character attempted the Hammer, I'd expect it to break your opponent's neck. Why? Because you're only "Technical" rather than "Heavily Technical" - your guy isn't good enough to pull off the more complex suplexes or other types of moves.

I'd think that any opponent in a match with your guy, if your guy said "I'll finish with the Phoenix Down", they'd run away from the ring, not wanting to be crippled.

Remember that there's meant to be a certain amount to "realism" for the moves, so your guy has to be physically capable of doing the move, let alone skilled enough.


I hope this makes sense.



EDIT: I'm saying this last bit to be "harsh", but to raise a point.
If your amount of input into the efed on your character was how much work your guy did to keep in ring shape, then he'd be a flabby mess.
It took a week to answer this question that you raised.
Your last post on a show was 4+ weeks ago.

If that's the effort that Mills puts in to keep in ring shape, then not only is he not technically proficient enough to do the move, he's probably got so much "ring rust" now that I wouldn't trust him to hit a vertical suplex, let alone a Hammer. :P


The reason I say this is because a couple of years back in the ERE the World Champ didn't post for 3 months - the attitude that a couple of us took was that his input into the fed was how much exercise he did, so in my next match I wrote him as REALLY out of shape.

If you guys want to read "Sweaty Sam", then I can post it. :D

[Twig]

Interesting theory. I agree that what you put into the fed should reflect what you get out of it. I for one, would like to read "sweaty sam".

[Dante]

Interesting theory. I agree that what you put into the fed should reflect what you get out of it. I for one, would like to read "sweaty sam".

It will make you afraid. VERY afraid....:P

[MrFill]

I presume he's read it by now - I posted it about 3 weeks ago. :P